Scalefour Forum

Jeremy Suter wrote:

Is there any possibility of the Iron mink seeing the light of day?
Craig

Hi Craig
I shall be getting some more of these test etches, as I would like a few more myself . Only thing I need to do for you would be right some instructions for you as its not so straight forward a kit one or two things need to be filled off.

Jeremy,

If that is at all possible, I would be more than happy to pass money your way for 6 of them. They would certainly fill a voild in my slowly growing GWR van collection.

Regards,

Craig

Jeremy, I also am interested in the railmotor chassis & valvegear. Tried the Mallard version, but not very successful!

John Sondermann

I had a bit of spare time this evening so I turned up some more rivets. Easy to turn, but as they are so small I lost a few when parting off. I made them from nickel silver rather than steel as its easier to solder when in place.

I also made up the Crosshead with a 16BA screw holding it together. Soldered the two pieces of the Union Link together the front is half etched to give shape but the rear is solid for strength except at the ends where I need a slot
.
The Combination Lever slotted at one end and the Drop Link slotted in the other I have pushed the rivets through . This was tricky to do as they are so small and I have not soldered them in place yet. This could be where I solder the whole thing up but I put spares on the etch just in case.

Jeremy Suter wrote: This could be where I solder the whole thing up but I put spares on the etch just in case.

Jeremy, there is a less risky way to do this. Assuming that (say) the union link is etched in two halves to create the "slot", you can solder a piece of wire solid into (say) the drop link, and another piece of wire into the combination lever. You can then put the two halves of the union link over the wire "pins" and solder the two halves of the union link together in the middle. Thus you are applying the iron nowhere near the joints. I use this approach for signals etc where things are so small as to barely exist...



Hope the pic helps show what I am on about...

Best Wishes,

Thanks Howard.
That is a great idea! The picture shows exactly what's to be done. I think every body should think about doing it that way when I make kits available. Then I might not have to turn so many rivets.

But I need to prove it can be done.
So I have. By using a piece of very thin paper to absorb the acid flux, creating a barrier between the layers of metal not to be soldered, and then putting minimal solder on with a very hot iron and fixing the rivet and the crank together. This worked very well for me but pushing the rivet through 3 holes and the paper I found it hard to line them up as they are so small and had to use my pointiest tweezers to hold the rivet and push it through.
Of coarse as the rivets are only nickel silver I could have just flatten the end of the rivet with a pair of pliers but when I tried I thought it was a little too loose although the rivet would not come out it was a sloppy fit.

My method with valve gear is to chemically blacken (usually with an etch marker pen, which is very controllable) all the surfaces of the parts where you don't want solder.

So if I am attaching a rod on top of a return crank, for example: all of the rod, including the inside of the hole through which the pivot pin will pass, is blackened. All of the return crank, apart from the hole and the back of the crank, is also blackened. The pin (I use a Duchesse pin with the head filed flat) is passed through the rod, then through a sliver of baking parchment (extra insurance but also to provide a thin spacer between the components) and then through the return crank. A small bit on the iron and a touch of solder on the back of the crank and the pin is cleanly secured to the crank. The baking parchment will easily pull out of the joint giving a little play between the two components.

I hope this is clear without a picture. I use this method wherever I don't want solder to go. I have also used the 'baking parchment and a drop of oil' method but found it not as reliable with my sometimes less than tidy soldering!

Philip

All very interesting stuff! A few ideas here I will try at some point.
Phillip, can I ask where you get your etch marker pens from?

Andrew Ullyott wrote:All very interesting stuff! A few ideas here I will try at some point.
Phillip, can I ask where you get your etch marker pens from?

Your local Maplin branch may sell them. Non high-street sources like RS and Farnell may sell them cheaper, though.

Andrew, sorry, I seem to have missed your enquiry. I have always purchased my etch marker pens from MSC Industrial Supply where for some reason I have a discount code. They're still not cheap, though, being £25 - odd each, maybe more. I get through about two a year, and I find them so much tidier to use than a cotton bud and gun blue. It is also useful for blackening solder, white metal and stainless steel.

The one caveat is not to use them on steel wheels, or at least if you do, to rigorously wash the metal when it's black enough for you. Otherwise it will rust and in a big way. I now use gun blue for steel and the marker pen for nickel silver wheels.

Philip

I use the fag paper method too. I find a drop of oil on the paper helps too.

Philip Hall wrote:Andrew, sorry, I seem to have missed your enquiry. I have always purchased my etch marker pens from MSC Industrial Supply where for some reason I have a discount code. They're still not cheap, though, being £25 - odd each, maybe more. I get through about two a year, and I find them so much tidier to use than a cotton bud and gun blue. It is also useful for blackening solder, white metal and stainless steel.

The one caveat is not to use them on steel wheels, or at least if you do, to rigorously wash the metal when it's black enough for you. Otherwise it will rust and in a big way. I now use gun blue for steel and the marker pen for nickel silver wheels.

Philip

I can't see these in MSC. Please give us the order code ref or exact name

Sorry again folks. MSC were my usual supplier, but looking back to July last year I see that I got the most recent supplies from Stevenage Machine Tools via eBay - link below. Prices of these things seem to rise regularly, so I now remember searching around and finding them on eBay. Strangely, I can't find them on SMT's website, but they are a current item on their eBay listing, at £21.99 with free delivery. This was cheaper than MSC with a discount.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Etching ... SwYmZXIPHE

Philip

Philip Hall wrote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Etching ... SwYmZXIPHE

Please forgive this being off-topic, but I noticed at the bottom of the page on Philip's link, tungsten and other scribers which are ideal for cutting microscope glass cover slips.

Philip Hall wrote:Sorry again folks. MSC were my usual supplier, but looking back to July last year I see that I got the most recent supplies from Stevenage Machine Tools via eBay - link below. Prices of these things seem to rise regularly, so I now remember searching around and finding them on eBay. Strangely, I can't find them on SMT's website, but they are a current item on their eBay listing, at £21.99 with free delivery. This was cheaper than MSC with a discount.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Etching ... SwYmZXIPHE

Philip

Thanks Philip

Found some time over the last couple of days and put together the second test etch. every thing seems to fit where it didn't before. only need now to open up the slots by a fraction to fit the tags as they were a little tight and I had to sharpen them to fit through. Them next job to fit the brakes and add some wheels and see if the valve gear fits.

Looks encouraging.

That looks very encouraging Jeremy, do keep us posted when there is more news.

Cheers, John

Thanks all for the comments.
I have been doing a little bit but although I have managed to get the wheels on and turn freely with coupling rod and connecting rods fitted. There is so little space behind the slidebars, I had to make my own bearings for the coupling rod crank and put on the wrong way round as there is no room to fit the nut.

I have also made up the brakes, they are removable so that the wheels can be dropped out for painting. Although they fit nicely there are four parts to each brake and so small I have decided to modify them.

So its back to the Drawing Board. I also need to do some EM spacers and a gearbox to suit driving the rear axle and motor fitting vertically through the hole you can see in the top photo, it can then be hidden by the vertical boiler.

Just to keep you all up to date a new chassis etch has gone to the etchers today.
I have slightly and off set the slide bars by quarter mm on each side as well as slimming them down by quarter mm to allow more space.
A gearbox frame has been added to the etch as High Level does not do one which will fit the 15mm gap from rear axle to centre of the boiler.

It also looks like there are almost enough parts to make a compensated and a rigid chassis it might be worth while doing a supplementary etch with the missing bits on.
In the mean time I have started on the underframe test etch. At first go there seem to be a lot of small errors and a change of design is needed for the centre beams.

Looking very nice indeed Jeremy.

Are you doing 57' underframe and 70' or just one type?

I have a 57' Mallard SRM and the etches for a Kemilway 70' (type M I believe)

Put me down for two SRM chassis... (please)

Regards,

Craig W

Craig Warton wrote:
Are you doing 57' underframe and 70' or just one type?

Hi Craig
At the moment I am working on the 59' Gloucester built engine but will move onto other types afterwards as once I have the chassis done it fits under every type. I am also interested in doing a Great Central Railmotor which has a very similar chassis.

And the LNWR one?

David,

the etches for the former Blacksmith LNWR Railmotor should still be available through CooperCraft (all he has to do is order them from the etchers and re-sell them) However, that would leave you without castings and roof but these are available from other sources - except for the motor chassis outside spring unit.

Jol

Jol,

I've an original Blacksmiths kit at the bottom of my stash. The reason it's there - just beneath some Keil Kraft road vehicle kits which I really must dig out and complete sometime soon - is that I've repeatedly read it is 'unbuildable'. I've also heard that if built it's impossible to get running reliably, and I know Philip Millard has said the mouldings mean it can't be lined out successfully. I did see one running at a show years ago so I know it can be done, but I think (memory getting hazy again) that was a Dave Lowery effort, and my skills are nowhere near his bracket. So I dream - occasionally - that someone might produce a replacement etch, at least for the engine unit, designed to take a modern motor and gearbox. I see that when Peter Grinstead built the example shown on the LNWR Society pages he had to scratchbuild the 'bogie". Don't think I'm up to that so it will just have to stay in the bottom of my trunk ...

David

David,

I know quite a few people who have kits they haven't yet started on, but I have seen several finished ones. I partly built one many years ago, but gave up because my skills weren't sufficiently developed to make a good enough job of it. However, I am now confident I can have another go and hopefully succeed.

Part of the reason I gave up was the poor OO chassis and the trailing bogie. However, I now have a cunning plan on how to deal with those.

I don't know about lining it, although the Ian Rathbone technique would work. Peter G looks to have made a good job of the paintwork.

Jol