GWR Diagram V2 Van

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:07 pm

Thanks Russ
I have got the right part, just the wrong name.
Pictured here back in the lathe for cleaning up, although The MJT Castings are very good. So just a quick spin and a touch with a piece of emery paper.

IMG_1815.JPG



And here slotted on the model (no white metal is fixed to the model until I have soldered the buffer beams on). But I still need the hinge.
I think the oil filler cap will have to be an etch.

IMG_1814.JPG

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Le Corbusier
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Le Corbusier » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:44 pm

Jeremy,

I have a question regarding the artwork for the etches.

Do you draw exactly what you wish to etch, or do you make some allowances for the undercut caused by the etching itself?

Regards

Tim
Tim Lee

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:56 pm

Hi Tim
To answer your Question.

"Do you draw exactly what you wish to etch, or do you make some allowances for the undercut caused by the etching itself?"

Yes I do make an allowance. I had it etched in 12thou Nickel Silver so I made it 0.125mm on all sides of the parts where the' re etched right through, but none where it is to be only 1/2 etched, I probably should but on the etches I got back I think it looks OK.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:00 pm

Jeremy Suter wrote:Hi Tim
To answer your Question.

"Do you draw exactly what you wish to etch, or do you make some allowances for the undercut caused by the etching itself?"

Yes I do make an allowance. I had it etched in 12thou Nickel Silver so I made it 0.125mm on all sides of the parts where the' re etched right through, but none where it is to be only 1/2 etched, I probably should but on the etches I got back I think it looks OK.



From where I'm standing it looks great.

Just to clarify .... are you saying that you draw the line where it needs to be at say .03mm thickness of line. You then offset this by .125. Is this to ensure that the edge of the etch matches the actual edge of the piece you want to define ? What sets the .125 dimension ... is it simply the recommended minimum thickness of etch based upon thickness of material or do you add something for the cusp which will be filed flat.

Sorry if this is all a bit basic, I am trying to get my head around the parameters.

I am thinking of having a go at a MR brake van circa 1900 as the slaters offerings do not appear available anymore and I haven't tracked down any other kit .... plus I would really like to have a go at doing an etch.

Regards

Tim
Tim Lee

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:15 pm

Hi Tim

The short answer to your question is:

That there is an under cut in the etching process which produces the cusp you file off.

This is approximately half the thickness of material you are etching. So. If 40 thou = 1mm and I've etched in 12 thou which is 3/10's mm slightly more than a 1/4. Then I allow an undercut of 1/8mm that is 0.125mm, this gives me a very slight allowance for them over etching and me filing.

If I want something solid to finish up .3mm wide, then I would draw it 0.55mm which is 0.125 added to each side. On the other hand if this was a half etch fold point then I should draw the line 0.05mm, I think that is too thin and I don't draw any line smaller than 0.1mm which should etch out at 0.35mm if I want a gap in the etch of 0.3mm as it is hard to remove the cusp I would draw a line of 0.25mm and try for a push fit with some 12 thou offcut.

Hope this is of use and good luck with the MR Parcels Van, any problems give me a ring

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Le Corbusier
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:21 pm

Jeremy Suter wrote:Hi Tim

The short answer to your question is:

That there is an under cut in the etching process which produces the cusp you file off.

This is approximately half the thickness of material you are etching. So. If 40 thou = 1mm and I've etched in 12 thou which is 3/10's mm slightly more than a 1/4. Then I allow an undercut of 1/8mm that is 0.125mm, this gives me a very slight allowance for them over etching and me filing.

If I want something solid to finish up .3mm wide, then I would draw it 0.55mm which is 0.125 added to each side. On the other hand if this was a half etch fold point then I should draw the line 0.05mm, I think that is too thin and I don't draw any line smaller than 0.1mm which should etch out at 0.35mm if I want a gap in the etch of 0.3mm as it is hard to remove the cusp I would draw a line of 0.25mm and try for a push fit with some 12 thou offcut.

Hope this is of use and good luck with the MR Parcels Van, any problems give me a ring


Thanks :thumb
Tim Lee

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:41 pm

Now I have added the rain strips to the roof by soldering .3 mm wire.5mm in from edge at centre and 2mm from edge at ends. Then tack soldering to form curve and then when satisfied it looks right full soldering in place and forming a neat curve.
IMG_1819.JPG
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IMG_1820.JPG

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:59 pm

With the rain strips all soldered in place and cleaned up with a scraper and a glass pen. I have added the buffer beams which are made from two pieces, laminated together with the rivets pushed out on the outer with a sharp Scriber.

Now they are soldered on and body and chassis put together again a small gap has appeared which means I need to look at the sizes of the buffer beam and end on the original etch drawing as I had not allowed about .3 mm for the fold of top of chassis and under fold of body. but for now I will fill up the gap with a piece of wire.
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IMG_1824.JPG
IMG_1827.JPG

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Mark Tatlow » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:24 am

Le Corbusier wrote:
I am thinking of having a go at a MR brake van circa 1900 as the slaters offerings do not appear available anymore and I haven't tracked down any other kit .... plus I would really like to have a go at doing an etch.

Regards

Tim


Tim,

Do you mean the 6 wheeled full brake, diagram 530?

If so, an etched version will look a bit like this..............

IMG_0983.JPG


Still under development as I had intended just to do the sides/ends so that I could marry it up to the slaters/roof underframe but having got this far, I found that the Slaters roof and underframe was 1.5mm too short!! Hence I have draw these too - which is nearly done, just wrestling with a cleminson system for the underframe.

If this is what you are looking for, keep an eye on my Highland Miscellany thread and when I crack it, I will make it available to others.


...and PS, I have spotted that the sides were handed, not mirrored as I have presently drawn them.
Mark Tatlow

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Le Corbusier
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:48 am

Mark Tatlow wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:
I am thinking of having a go at a MR brake van circa 1900 as the slaters offerings do not appear available anymore and I haven't tracked down any other kit .... plus I would really like to have a go at doing an etch.

Regards

Tim


Tim,

Do you mean the 6 wheeled full brake, diagram 530?

If so, an etched version will look a bit like this..............

IMG_0983.JPG

Still under development as I had intended just to do the sides/ends so that I could marry it up to the slaters/roof underframe but having got this far, I found that the Slaters roof and underframe was 1.5mm too short!! Hence I have draw these too - which is nearly done, just wrestling with a cleminson system for the underframe.

If this is what you are looking for, keep an eye on my Highland Miscellany thread and when I crack it, I will make it available to others.


...and PS, I have spotted that the sides were handed, not mirrored as I have presently drawn them.


Mark,

That looks like a very promising etch ... I shall definitely be interested in progress.

My thoughts however were a little more prosaic ... I was thinking about the 10 ton goods brake van .... I may not have looked hard enough but the only kit I have found to date is the old Slaters one within the Cooper Craft range and this would no longer seem to be available ..... there are I believe question marks over the quality of the tooling I think.

Jeremy's thread made me think it might be an opportunity to see if I can learn a little about the etching process .... though it all might be simple pipe dreams!

Regards

Tim
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Tim Lee

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:45 pm

Getting back to my Van..
I have now put the brake rigging on. Although I am not 100% sure its correct as I have never seen a close up photo of the the real thing only photos showing the outside link. The main problem is that the axles get in the way of the pull rods.
IMG_1829.JPG

To get round the axles I have stepped the outer pull bars one upwards and the other downwards to suit the links.
IMG_1831.JPG
IMG_1833.JPG
IMG_1834.JPG
All the pull rods are now attached and are made from .45mm brass wire with .3mm wire used for pins on the links, and .7mm for the vacuum V rod. I have still not fixed the white metal fittings on, merely clipped on as I still have the foot boards to solder and do not want to melt the fittings
IMG_1832.JPG
IMG_1835.JPG

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:54 am

Thanks to David Brandreth for showing me his open fish wagon which uses similar brakes so to my model I have added rods from the brakes lever to underneath the body. This should pull them back into the off position.
IMG_1840.JPG

You will also notice I have now added the steps but I made the error of not slipping in the spring castings on this side, the steps are proud of the chassis by about 3/4 mm the mounting brackets were fitted first followed by the top step and the excess length cut off.
IMG_1837.JPG
You should also notice that the vacuum lever has been reversed as I had originally put it on upside down.
With all the main metal working done I have now soldered on the castings and made the chain and hooks out of twisted copper wire not sure what gauge but its about .4mm.
IMG_1844.JPG

The Vacuum pipes I made from .7mm nickel wire with .2 mm copper wire would round them and a bit of solder at each end to keep fixed in place and look like the ends also you can see I have made the grab handles and slotted them in but not fixed so they can be removed for painting and the last thing I have now fitted is the oil lamp filler cap made from a track rivet and top filed flat.
IMG_1843.JPG

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Le Corbusier
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:36 am

Jeremy,

this is really inspirational.

Tim
Tim Lee

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Guy Rixon
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:30 pm

Concerning the brake rigging, are you sure that the levers passing though the shoes should come out horizontally? All the brake rigs I've seen of this kind - and none of them for the GWR, I admit - have those levers sloping down to the outside such that the outside linkages are well below the steps and the limit of travel of the axleboxes. The upper, inner ends are then above axle level.

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Quote Guy Rixon

Concerning the brake rigging, are you sure that the levers passing though the shoes should come out horizontally? All the brake rigs I've seen of this kind - and none of them for the GWR, I admit - have those levers sloping down to the outside such that the outside linkages are well below the steps and the limit of travel of the axleboxes. The upper, inner ends are then above axle level.



Thanks Guy, for metioning this, the only clear picture I can find of the brakes is attached
1.jpg
and shows the inner side of the rigging straight. as I have done. What it does show is that the outside linkage is between the steps rather than below as on my model which means I need to go back to the original artwork and extend the gap between the folds in the bracket, and possibly shorten the brake hangers.
The drawing in Russell's book does not show the position of the outside links, and the lower step is on the centre line of the rigging. Studying the photos of the van the lower step is lower than the centre line and the rigging is in between which means I shall now have to go and alter the height of the steps.

Jeremy Suter
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby Jeremy Suter » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:26 pm

It's been along time since I posted on this topic and its about time I did.

Its now all painted in the GWR Lined Livery as no 784. It could probably do with some weathering but I am reluctant to do it yet as it took so long to paint. Although only about 15 hours in all, but done in small amounts over quite a few months.

Seen here with the Brian Morgan Iron Mink straight out of the works freshly painted as 57089 and still to be weathered. in front is the tender from my old GCR Single and behind a Norths Navigation PO wagon.
IMG_2043.JPG

Again here with a very old ABS kit painted as NBR Gunpowder van. which has not yet been fitted with AJ couplings yet.
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IMG_2047.JPG

ralphrobertson
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby ralphrobertson » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:22 am

Those look superb Jeremy. That drawing course has paid dividends eh?

Ralph

kelham
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Re: GWR Diagram V2 Van

Postby kelham » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:33 pm

Looking really nice!



Richard


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