Edwardian Wagons

garethashenden
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Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:05 pm

With an eventual goal of modelling the North London Railway in 1903 I've been building some appropriate wagons. Some of them were built as EM originally, but they'll all end up P4 eventually.

I've got an LCDR open wagon that still needs lettering and the insides painting:
Image

One of Bill Bedford's LNWR D1s and a London Road Models NLR brake van:
Image

A short EM/P4 train posed on Empire Mills:
Image

And the initial box for what will eventually be a GER D16 open wagon:
Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Guy Rixon » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:23 pm

Is the LCDR open from the D&S kit?

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:53 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:Is the LCDR open from the D&S kit?


No, it's from 5&9 Models.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:55 am

Ah. Another extinct range then. Pity; the wagon looks very nice.

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:47 am

Guy Rixon wrote:Ah. Another extinct range then. Pity; the wagon looks very nice.


Not entirely. I emailed him asking if he happened to have any in stock. He said he didn't, but that he could have some cast for me. So I got two and some LBSCR axleboxes. I don't know if that would happen again, but it may not hurt to ask.

billbedford
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby billbedford » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:08 am

If you don't mind some criticisms, in the spirit of "getting it all right":

    Planks on wagon were only chamfered on the outside, the demarkation between them is only visual.

    The insides were never painted, they were left as plain timber.

    None of the photos I've seen suggest that the LNWR picked out the body iron work in black.

    You really need to see a GA of a wagon to model the inside, often carriage bolts were used so there were no washer plates.
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:52 pm

billbedford wrote:If you don't mind some criticisms, in the spirit of "getting it all right":

    Planks on wagon were only chamfered on the outside, the demarkation between them is only visual.

    The insides were never painted, they were left as plain timber.

    None of the photos I've seen suggest that the LNWR picked out the body iron work in black.

    You really need to see a GA of a wagon to model the inside, often carriage bolts were used so there were no washer plates.


I probably overdid it on the GER wagon, but in the past when I haven't put any planking on the inside it also looks wrong.

I know they weren't painted on the inside. I meant that I needed to paint them so represent weathered wood.

Fair enough, I can change that. Iron work was black on so many wagons that I sort of did it reflexively.

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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby beachboy » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:42 am

Hi Gareth,

You may be aware of the article in Railway Archive No13, about early North London coal trade.
The Windsor pic of dumb buffered wagons include some smaller wagons, one of three painted NLR.
Thought they would make nice scratchbuilds to go with your Brake Van.
Compared to the Parry & Clay Cross wagons, the w/base looks to be c.8ft.
Probably late Victorian - but what the hell.

I have seen reference to Open interiors, maybe just the floor, painted lead colour, or a given a coat of pitch.
But how long that would be apparent - who knows, but your models are v.freshly clean.
Coach bolts with washers, when Washer Plates not used. A challenge, but possible.

Steve.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:11 pm

billbedford wrote:Planks on wagon were only chamfered on the outside, the demarkation between them is only visual.


I've always found this odd. As I understand it, the purpose of the chamfer was to avoid trapping water between the planks in order to delay rot. If so, why would the owner not care about rot from the inside of an open wagon? Most opens, surely, would not be sheeted when returned empty, so the insides would frequently be wet.

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:34 pm

beachboy wrote:Hi Gareth,

You may be aware of the article in Railway Archive No13, about early North London coal trade.
The Windsor pic of dumb buffered wagons include some smaller wagons, one of three painted NLR.
Thought they would make nice scratchbuilds to go with your Brake Van.
Compared to the Parry & Clay Cross wagons, the w/base looks to be c.8ft.
Probably late Victorian - but what the hell.

I have seen reference to Open interiors, maybe just the floor, painted lead colour, or a given a coat of pitch.
But how long that would be apparent - who knows, but your models are v.freshly clean.
Coach bolts with washers, when Washer Plates not used. A challenge, but possible.

Steve.


Off to ebay... That's just the sort of article I need. I have a love of dumb buffered wagons, so I'm happy to stretch dates if I can have more of them.

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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby beachboy » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:23 am

I would of thought Guy, that if you put a chamfer both sides, the ( tongue & groove ? ) sheets will become weakened. With a few tons of coal leaning on the one side may then pose structual problem.
I also would consider the chamfer to be only really effective, when paint is applied, thus damp & rain cannot soak into the wood, and encourage gravity do the finnish the job.

Steve.

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Flymo748
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:24 am

garethashenden wrote:
billbedford wrote:If you don't mind some criticisms, in the spirit of "getting it all right":

    Planks on wagon were only chamfered on the outside, the demarkation between them is only visual.

    The insides were never painted, they were left as plain timber.

    None of the photos I've seen suggest that the LNWR picked out the body iron work in black.

    You really need to see a GA of a wagon to model the inside, often carriage bolts were used so there were no washer plates.


I probably overdid it on the GER wagon, but in the past when I haven't put any planking on the inside it also looks wrong.

I know they weren't painted on the inside. I meant that I needed to paint them so represent weathered wood.

Fair enough, I can change that. Iron work was black on so many wagons that I sort of did it reflexively.


I'm with you that there needs to be a representation of "something" on the inside to catch the light and show that there is a difference in texture - even if only between two planks. So my view is that you've got it about right.

In terms of the painting of the inside, well in my view that really does help the realism if there is a decent representation of the unpainted wood. It's one of the things that seems to lift a "model" above a "toy".

I'm currently painting a batch of five LNWR ballast wagons, and it can be quite tricky to determine between the darkish LNWR grey and the black that they used on ironwork _below_ the solebar to establish what is what. All that I would say is that a good picture (there are a couple of really large ones in LNWR Liveries by the HMRS) will be invaluable.

Hope that these thoughts are useful, and keep up the good work of modelling in a Proper Period!

Cheers
Flymo
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:33 am

I've weather a wagon! The inside is Phoenix Precision "Weathered Wood", then the whole thing has had a black wash.

Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Two more wagons have progressed to a shareable point.

LNWR Deal wagon from London Road Models
Image
Image

And a GCR D1 2 plank from Bill Bedford
Image
Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:38 pm

I got three of Bill Bedford's LNWR D32 vans in the post a couple of weeks ago. I built one this morning. If all kits were this easy to build, a lot more people would build kits. It was incredibly easy to put together. Opening the box to painting in under two hours.

All the parts:
Image

Ready for paint:
Image
Image

It's been painted, should get the diamonds on there tomorrow and fit the wheels and buffers.
Last edited by garethashenden on Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Knuckles
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Knuckles » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:54 pm

Awesome. Love the early pre-Grouping periods so its very nice to see some models. That kit does indeed look a doddle. Looking forward to the finished result. :)

What couplings do you use?
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:57 pm

Knuckles wrote:Awesome. Love the early pre-Grouping periods so its very nice to see some models. That kit does indeed look a doddle. Looking forward to the finished result. :)

What couplings do you use?


Thanks!

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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby iak » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:05 am

Darned clever that Mr Bedford..... :thumb
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:03 pm

After a visit to the paint shop things have progressed a bit. They still need to go visit the scale, but that will happen soon.

Image
Image
Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:11 pm

I also finished a North London brake van at least a month ago but failed to photograph it at the time. Here it is:

Image
Image
Image

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:17 pm

Hi Gareth,

Not my period but lovely stuff nonetheless. Keep flying the wagoneers flag, I'll be looking out for further goodies.

John.
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:20 pm

I spent a few minutes on Sunday weathering a couple wagons. I used Winsor & Newton's water mixable oil paints. It's a very strange concept, and I have no idea how they work, but I like them. There's a really long working time, but they still clean up with water, rather than turpentine.

Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:26 pm

Hi Gareth,

I'd love to see some close ups of your weathering. I'm always interested in different methods. One is never too old to learn new tricks, as my old dog says.

John.
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garethashenden
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby garethashenden » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:12 pm

Here's a close up.
Image

The wagons have had a coat of matt varnish. I mixed burnt umber with white and almost drybrushed it on. Thin it slightly with water if needed. On the LB&SCR wagon I put far too much on, so I took a damp paper towel and wiped it off with vertical strokes. The PO wagon had quite a bit of plain white put on as well as the brown. That's not the best explanation. When I do another one I'll try to take notes.
Last edited by garethashenden on Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Edwardian Wagons

Postby Lord Colnago » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:24 pm

Thanks for posting those Gareth, very nice too. Burnt Umber is such a useful colour in weathering wagons of all periods.
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