wagon building progress.

User avatar
Guy Rixon
Posts: 800
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Guy Rixon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:14 pm

If the etched tarpaulin support does not appear, and assuming that dimensions are available, I could print some.

dclift
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:35 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby dclift » Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:07 am

Dave K wrote:David,

I did have some white metal tarp rail bits but they were from an ABS accessory kit which I don’t think are available now. I have some of the Southwark Bridge also which I’ve fitted to a Coopercraft 4 plank open.
Dave

I suspect that my tarp bar mechanisms did indeed came from ABS but I inherited them amongst the odds and ends from the widow of a deceased friend and ABS no longer seem to be producing them.
markdavy wrote:I wandered over to the Model Railway Developments stand and had a long conversation with Hubert. He had overcome a significant design problem and hoped to release by the end of the year. I had a similar conversation with him at the Portsmouth exhibition in November, and gave him my contact details. I haven’t heard from him, so I guess the development is not yet complete. I was hoping to see him at the Corsham show, but the virus has intervened ...

I gave my email contact details to Hubert several years ago and again more recently, but I suspect that he has filed them somewhere inaccessible. (The waste paper basket?)
Craig Warton wrote:I am still waiting on some GWR coach buffers from MRD that I ordered and paid for in 2016. Despite a friend actually reminding the proprietor in 2017 they still have not shown up. I will look at any other path including doing my own or paying someone to do it before I ever click "add to cart" with MRD again.

If the mechanisms do eventually materialise, it looks as though I had better purchase them face-to-face the next time that I get to Scaleforum, though that is not likely to be any time soon given the travel restrictions and the distance.
Guy Rixon wrote:If the etched tarpaulin support does not appear, and assuming that dimensions are available, I could print some.

On page 280 of GWR Goods Wagons by Atkins et al (the wagon bible), figure 255 is a reproduction of the engineering drawing for a Diagram O4 Open A which shows the mechanism, but it is virtually useless due to the quality of reproduction. I assume that the original exists somewhere, but research from Australia is a little difficult.
David Clift.

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:18 am

"On page 280 of GWR Goods Wagons by Atkins et al (the wagon bible), figure 255 is a reproduction of the engineering drawing for a Diagram O4 Open A which shows the mechanism, but it is virtually useless due to the quality of reproduction. I assume that the original exists somewhere, but research from Australia is a little difficult."

Hi David,

Another Aussie here so the face to face routine is a little difficult too!

I am going to see if I can get a better copy of the GA and try to work out dimensions. The offer from Guy is very generous, my only concern is how fragile the subsequent print would be (any thoughts Guy?)

Regards,

Craig W

User avatar
Guy Rixon
Posts: 800
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:30 am

A printed support would be very fragile until installed. On the wagon, it would be braced by the tarpaulin rail itself, presumed to be made of brass wire, and then probably OK. The pivot mechanism would be the most vulnerable part. It could be printed to be robust or close to scale but not both. It would not like shear forces. If the wire rail was glued to the semi-circular part of the mechanism above the pivot, then I think the assembly would serve.

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:46 am

Guy Rixon wrote:A printed support would be very fragile until installed. On the wagon, it would be braced by the tarpaulin rail itself, presumed to be made of brass wire, and then probably OK. The pivot mechanism would be the most vulnerable part. It could be printed to be robust or close to scale but not both. It would not like shear forces. If the wire rail was glued to the semi-circular part of the mechanism above the pivot, then I think the assembly would serve.



Guy,

Would it be possible to print a jig to form the brass wire (0.8mm) to shape?

It is an "interesting exercise trying to get repeatability on the curve at each end as well as the length.

Craig W

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:45 am

My last experience at trying to spring a white metal wagon kit did not end well. There was a variation between the castings that meat I would not line everything up properly. Rather than try and go through the same battle again I have decided to build my stock of white metal wagon kits "as is" albeit that I will still upgrade the brake gear.

I had forgotten that I had actually accumulated quite a number of them, so I started with some David Geen 3 plank wagons, then built an ABS 4 plank wagon and a David Geen GWR low sided covered van. I am currently working on another. So, painting has been pushed back while I get this lot finished. But that will give me 14 wagons to paint which will keep me occupied until I return to work.

Anyway, this is what I am up to - so even more progress! I will have a reasonable number of (GWR) goods wagons after this and it might be time to do something else.
Attachments
IMG_E9469.JPG

User avatar
Guy Rixon
Posts: 800
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:44 am

Craig Warton wrote:
Guy Rixon wrote:A printed support would be very fragile until installed. On the wagon, it would be braced by the tarpaulin rail itself, presumed to be made of brass wire, and then probably OK. The pivot mechanism would be the most vulnerable part. It could be printed to be robust or close to scale but not both. It would not like shear forces. If the wire rail was glued to the semi-circular part of the mechanism above the pivot, then I think the assembly would serve.



Guy,

Would it be possible to print a jig to form the brass wire (0.8mm) to shape?

It is an "interesting exercise trying to get repeatability on the curve at each end as well as the length.

Craig W


I can print a template for the bends, but it won't work very well as a jig, in the sense that the resin will be easily damaged if the wire is bent round it. I could build the template into the outer sprue of the main print of sheet supports. If you do want a strong jig, it may be possible to print a separate one in one of SW's stronger materials; but I have no experience with these.

dclift
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:35 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby dclift » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:18 pm

Craig Warton wrote:Hi David,

Another Aussie here so the face to face routine is a little difficult too!

I am going to see if I can get a better copy of the GA and try to work out dimensions. The offer from Guy is very generous, my only concern is how fragile the subsequent print would be (any thoughts Guy?)



Hi Craig,
I knew that you are in Sydney so, who knows, we might meet up one day. Like you, I think that 3D prints would be very fragile as were the whitemetal versions, but if Guy produces them I would certainly give them a try. Good luck with the GA.

I can't recall how I bent the actual bars in the days when I had the other parts, it was a while ago. I think I made a jig, but I tend to make a lot of jigs and then forget what they were designed to do, though I am getting better at labelling them these days.
David Clift.

User avatar
David B
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby David B » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:45 pm

Craig Warton wrote:My last experience at trying to spring a white metal wagon kit did not end well. There was a variation between the castings that meat I would not line everything up properly. Rather than try and go through the same battle again I have decided to build my stock of white metal wagon kits "as is" albeit that I will still upgrade the brake gear.

I have made and sprung a number of white metal wagons (including David Geen's) using Bill Bedford's units. I replace the plastic floors with brass and if necessary, thin the back of the solebars. Any slight discrepancy between the sprung unit and the w/m W irons is not noticeable once the underframe has been painted black and muckied up.

User avatar
Dave K
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Dave K » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:08 am

Craig Warton wrote:
Guy Rixon wrote:A printed support would be very fragile until installed. On the wagon, it would be braced by the tarpaulin rail itself, presumed to be made of brass wire, and then probably OK. The pivot mechanism would be the most vulnerable part. It could be printed to be robust or close to scale but not both. It would not like shear forces. If the wire rail was glued to the semi-circular part of the mechanism above the pivot, then I think the assembly would serve.



Guy,

Would it be possible to print a jig to form the brass wire (0.8mm) to shape?

It is an "interesting exercise trying to get repeatability on the curve at each end as well as the length.

Craig W


Craig,

Attached is a photo of 4 plank with a ABS white metal tarpaulin rail and a 5 plank with a Southwark Bridge etch one with my tats rail former. This is two bits of double sided copper paxaline with a copy of a diagram from the GW Wagons on the top to act a bending guide.

IMG_1060.jpg
IMG_1060.jpg (104.08 KiB) Viewed 3658 times

I’ve also found a plan, in the wagon’s page of the September 1979 Railway Modeller, of a 4 plank open with tarpaulin rail.

Dave

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Sun May 31, 2020 10:40 am

Dave, many thanks for the idea of a jig to ensure I form the tarp rail consistently rather than getting lots of rejects.

I am still going with the wagon building. two 3 plank wagons and a van are finished. I have 3 x 3 plank wagons, a four plank and one more van underway. After they get done there will be a painting session and then I will finish off some horse boxes, a siphon and move onto some coaches.

I love wagons, but I am feeling the need for something different!

The one great thing about this isolation has been how many people on here are making great progress on things, it is fantastic to see so much modelling being done. I do not hope the isolation continues but hope that the upsurge in forum activity will go on.

Regards,

Craig Warton

IMG_E9719.JPG

DougN
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby DougN » Sun May 31, 2020 11:51 am

Great to see your doing things, Craig. The wagons look great. I think I am on the other side... I am getting a bit over locos! I wouldn't mind doing some thing different. Only managed a little bit on the V2's this weekend but the weeds were mowed and the dog was very happy with the company.

Any how your right about the upswing in modelling and I can see this continuing at least until Christmas and may be even longer as people have now formed a habit or routine. I had heard it is 3 weeks to form a routine, with us here in Australia I think our routines of modelling etc will continue as the weather closes in where as the northern hemisphere is coming into better weather now. So I would guess once the lockdown eases the amount may drop faster in the north. We will be able to continue until probably October or November.

It is interesting times. Any how back to the modelling bench! :D
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:27 am

It has been a while between drinks so I thought I should do a quick update. As always, I have wagons on the go . I am still working through the in progress ones so I can make a change and do something different though. I am growing weary of wagons at the moment.

One thing I did today was finish off the conversion of an Oxford 12 Ton tank wagon. It was very good seeing Oxford doing this and it looked good from the photos I had seen. I ordered two of them and they arrived a few weeks ago. The Oxford axles seem to be about 26.5mm and as I wanted to do a quick conversion I simply removed the wheels and fitted Ultrascale wheels on the Oxford axles. They were set to gauge and secured with a little Loctite.
The brakes need to be pushed out and this meant some trimming. I did not like the inner V on the moulding - it was rather clumsy looking and the same with the safety loops. So, I removed them and fitted a Masokits V hanger and some safety loops from the same source. The coupling hook looked a bit oversacle and I replaced that with an Exactoscale one and couplings from the same source.
The completed model weighs 41 grams but I am not sure where more weight can be squeezed in.
I think the Carless livery is actually a 1930s one. Petroleum Rail tank wagons of Britain has a photo of Carless number 6 which entered traffic in 1911 and the livery is different but the next illustration is from 1936. As I model the early 1920s, I suspect the 1911 livery is probably more correct but I shall live with it.

In summary, it looks like a nice model and checks out ok to drawings and photos.

That is it for the moment, I shall do a fuller update sometime soon (Ha!)

Regards,

Craig Warton
Attachments
IMG_E1190.JPG

User avatar
Wizard of the Moor
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Wizard of the Moor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:56 pm

Looks very nice. Is the underframe made like other Oxford wagons, where the axleguards and brakegear are on a separate moulding between the solebars?
James Dickie

My workbench

DougN
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby DougN » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:29 pm

That looks great Craig. Years ago MRJ had articles on using Bachmann Wagons to achieving a quicker way into larger wagon fleets. I think the same style of articles could be good with the new Oxford Range.

Let alone the Justin Newitts range Rumney models that makes so many fabulous kits which I have yet to try!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
Paul Willis
Forum Team
Posts: 2542
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:57 pm

Evening (Morning Australia) all...

It's been a while, but my thoughts are turning once again to GWR sheet supports. Yes, I know, that's what lockdown does for you.

Did anything any better surface than the drawing in Tourrett?

I've been through my Russell reference books, and the GWRJ Index, and can't find anything further of use.

Any sources anyone?

Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Bill Newstead
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 10:30 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Bill Newstead » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:01 pm

There are Kenneth Werrett drawings of 5-plank OPEN B 92008 and 7-plank OPEN A 29304 in the Model Railway News for February and March 1966 respectively. Both drawings have dimensions of the sheet supporter mechanism. I could scan these for you if that will help.

Bill

User avatar
Paul Willis
Forum Team
Posts: 2542
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Paul Willis » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:12 pm

Bill Newstead wrote:There are Kenneth Werrett drawings of 5-plank OPEN B 92008 and 7-plank OPEN A 29304 in the Model Railway News for February and March 1966 respectively. Both drawings have dimensions of the sheet supporter mechanism. I could scan these for you if that will help.

Bill


Hi Bill,

That would be incredibly helpful if you could. Let me know if you have any difficulty attaching them here, or emailing them.

Thanks
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

User avatar
Craig Warton
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Craig Warton » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:47 pm

Paul,

Apologies for my not replying. various real life things have slowed my progress and I am now frantically trying to finalise things for a presentation for S4 North on wagon building (that is a shock).

If you are inclined to look at an etch for the tarp support mechanism then you can certainly count on my support. I have a few spare Parkside ones and also some on on etch of brakegear components produced by Southwark Bridge Models that is not listed by Roxey. As they are part of a full etch of brakegear they are not an economical way to get them anyway.

Regards,

Craig

dclift
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:35 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby dclift » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:39 pm

Paul,

Greetings from the antipodes and apologies for the slow reply. Like Craig I am spending most of my spare time on something that I am attempting to do for S4N. I would certainly be interested if you go ahead with this as I have exhausted my meagre supply of ABS castings.

Bill Newstead wrote:There are Kenneth Werrett drawings of 5-plank OPEN B 92008 and 7-plank OPEN A 29304 in the Model Railway News for February and March 1966 respectively. Both drawings have dimensions of the sheet supporter mechanism.


Bill, thanks for reminding us of this. I have now dug out my copies, scanned the relevant pages and filed them with my stash of unbuilt GW wagon kits.

Best wishes,

David.
David Clift.

Bill Newstead
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 10:30 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Bill Newstead » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:39 pm

Paul,

Hi Bill,

That would be incredibly helpful if you could. Let me know if you have any difficulty attaching them here, or emailing them.

Thanks
Paul


I have the scans ready. They are rather large files. Could you pm me with an email address please.

Thanks

Bill

User avatar
Paul Willis
Forum Team
Posts: 2542
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: wagon building progress.

Postby Paul Willis » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:43 pm

Bill Newstead wrote:Paul,

Hi Bill,

That would be incredibly helpful if you could. Let me know if you have any difficulty attaching them here, or emailing them.

Thanks
Paul


I have the scans ready. They are rather large files. Could you pm me with an email address please.

Thanks

Bill


Thanks Bill - PM sent...
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk


Return to “Craig Warton”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests