A little diversion...

Daddyman
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Daddyman » Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:17 am

davebradwell wrote: if you add bits of suitable tube to the intermediate gearbox shafts to prevent the faces of the gears rubbing together it actually reduces noise noticeably.
DaveB

Do you mean other than the bits of tube supplied in the HL gearbox, Dave? It looks like John hasn't fitted it/them, or perhaps they're not supplied in this particular gearbox?

davebradwell
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby davebradwell » Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:31 am

This is a special gearbox, David, so I don't know how many spacers are provided but the design does usually rely on the gears trapping each other to stay in line - I've used very few types so can't speak for them all. I've spoken to others who are fitting the extra spacers. It's not a devastating difference but noticeable. Haven't done one for a while but I have a recollection that the gear teeth can come close to the adjacent shaft leaving minimal space for some thin tube.

DaveB

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:50 am

Spacing is done by washers, I'd forgotten that there is already one on the lower shaft a there are a couple to go in further down. I'll test it all before it is fitted and see what it sounds like.

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Will L
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:40 am

I'm a little worried about your coupling rods. They have a pivot between the leading and middle driving wheels, which is as it should be, but they appear to be solid from there on back to the jack shaft. I would expect the rear driver to jack shaft section to be separate and effectively pivoted on the rear driver crank pin, just like the original, otherwise the middle driver isn't free to move with the compensation. Have I missed a point here?

Porcy Mane
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Porcy Mane » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:44 pm

Will L wrote:I'm a little worried about your coupling rods. They have a pivot between the leading and middle driving wheels, which is as it should be, but they appear to be solid from there on back to the jack shaft. I would expect the rear driver to jack shaft section to be separate and effectively pivoted on the rear driver crank pin, just like the original, otherwise the middle driver isn't free to move with the compensation. Have I missed a point here?


Part of the High Level "Illusodrive" (I thinks that's how Mr Gibbons spells it) System. The drive cranks are driven & synchronised via a gearbox extension but are not mechanical connected to the coupling rods via the crank pins.
As this part of the coupling rod assemblies is hidden behind the safety mesh on the prototype you can't tell there's no connection. Your track would really need to be uneven for the lever effect on the rear part of coupling rod to move it away far enough from the crank to be noticeable.

You just have to quarter 3 axles instead of 4. You can also build it as per prototype by omitting the illosodrive section of the gearbox and pivoting the rear rod.

The crank axle has yet to be fitted in this video but it should illustrate how the coupling rods work in the Illosodrive system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj8E3412Afw

John,

If you are going to use the later type Bachmann 04 body you can get away without using the High Level front and rear step assemblies. (They would come in handy for a late Class 04 version). I'll show you what I mean next time I see you. Dunno when that might be as this Lurgi is taking some shaking off.

P

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Will L
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:12 pm

Porcy Mane wrote:
Will L wrote:I'm a little worried about your coupling rods. They have a pivot between the leading and middle driving wheels, which is as it should be, but they appear to be solid from there on back to the jack shaft. I would expect the rear driver to jack shaft section to be separate and effectively pivoted on the rear driver crank pin, just like the original, otherwise the middle driver isn't free to move with the compensation. Have I missed a point here?


Part of the High Level "Illusodrive" (I thinks that's how Mr Gibbons spells it) System. The drive cranks are driven & synchronised via a gearbox extension but are not mechanical connected to the coupling rods via the crank pins.
As this part of the coupling rod assemblies is hidden behind the safety mesh on the prototype you can't tell there's no connection. Your track would really need to be uneven for the lever effect on the rear part of coupling rod to move it away far enough from the crank to be noticeable...

That makes sense thank you. Thinking about it I do now remember something similar being said before in relation ship to Jack Shaft drive but I obviously didn't fully understand it at the time.

As somebody who would want the drive axle to float too, is there any specific difficulty in driving the jack shaft from the rods in the traditional way which persuades people to do it (I was tempted to say cheat) like this?

Daddyman
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Daddyman » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:01 pm

The instructions discourage it, Will - or at least those for the AW diesel do. They (the instructions) say that people have tried it (and also driving to the jackshaft) but experienced binding.
Last edited by Daddyman on Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Daddyman » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:29 pm

davebradwell wrote:This is a special gearbox, David, so I don't know how many spacers are provided but the design does usually rely on the gears trapping each other to stay in line - I've used very few types so can't speak for them all. I've spoken to others who are fitting the extra spacers. It's not a devastating difference but noticeable. Haven't done one for a while but I have a recollection that the gear teeth can come close to the adjacent shaft leaving minimal space for some thin tube.

DaveB

Thanks, Dave. I have one to build so will bear this in mind.

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zebedeesknees
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby zebedeesknees » Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:13 pm

Will L wrote:
As somebody who would want the drive axle to float too, is there any specific difficulty in driving the jack shaft from the rods in the traditional way which persuades people to do it (I was tempted to say cheat) like this?

It works either way Will, - or doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, the throw on the jack shaft has to match exactly the throw of the chosen wheels, and Chris can't be sure what they might be.

Ted.
(A purists' purist)

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Will L
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:48 pm

zebedeesknees wrote:
Will L wrote:
As somebody who would want the drive axle to float too, is there any specific difficulty in driving the jack shaft from the rods in the traditional way which persuades people to do it (I was tempted to say cheat) like this?

It works either way Will, - or doesn't. As I mentioned earlier, the throw on the jack shaft has to match exactly the throw of the chosen wheels, and Chris can't be sure what they might be.

Yes that makes sense.

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:04 pm

I’m pleased others have been able to answer. As this is my first ever coupled chassis build, and being very ignorant of such things, this is being built strictly as designed and as per the instructions.

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:43 pm

Porcy Mane wrote:
John,

If you are going to use the later type Bachmann 04 body you can get away without using the High Level front and rear step assemblies. (They would come in handy for a late Class 04 version). I'll show you what I mean next time I see you. Dunno when that might be as this Lurgi is taking some shaking off.

P


Cheers Paul.

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Paul Willis
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Paul Willis » Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:06 pm

John Donnelly wrote:I’m pleased others have been able to answer. As this is my first ever coupled chassis build, and being very ignorant of such things, this is being built strictly as designed and as per the instructions.

John


John,

With Chris's kits, that pretty much guarantees that you will get an excellent looking and running model. The esoteric approaches can wait for another day!

Keep up the progress...

Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Porcy Mane
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby Porcy Mane » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:30 pm

John Donnelly wrote:
Porcy Mane wrote:
John,

If you are going to use the later type Bachmann 04 body you can get away without using the High Level front and rear step assemblies. (They would come in handy for a late Class 04 version). I'll show you what I mean next time I see you. Dunno when that might be as this Lurgi is taking some shaking off.

P


Cheers Paul.


John,

Quoting myself, ignore what I said above. I was spouting total cobblers. Having just revisited the latest Bachmann 03 body, the steps are rubbish and are much improved by fitting that parts from the High level etch. I was getting mixed up with the Hornby 08 which as you know, has very good front steps.

Apologies for the misleading statement.

P

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:39 pm

Porcy Mane wrote:John,

Quoting myself, ignore what I said above. I was spouting total cobblers. Having just revisited the latest Bachmann 03 body, the steps are rubbish and are much improved by fitting that parts from the High level etch. I was getting mixed up with the Hornby 08 which as you know, has very good front steps.

Apologies for the misleading statement.

P


No bother. Martin turned up with a body for me last week so I'm ready to start hacking at that although I've still not ordered the wheels...

Cheers

John
Last edited by John Donnelly on Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:28 pm

Some progress on the 03 tonight. Nothing is fixed in place but I'm pleased to report that it all fits where it should...

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DougN
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby DougN » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:58 am

John, looking very nice there. Highlevel kits are a nice build... though one of mine has been placed to the side as it is being unco-operative! :thumb
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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:19 pm

Thanks Doug, it's my first experience of a High Level chassis kit (indeed it is my first experience of a chassis kit full stop) and it has been relatively straight forward so far which is far more down to the quality of the kit than anything else...

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John Donnelly
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Re: A little diversion...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun May 22, 2022 8:49 pm

Having purchased the wheels at Expo EM last week, more work has been done on the 03 with the gear box, motor and compensation beam temporarily fitted. Everything that is supposed to rotate does so with no apparent binding so far so I'm pleased with progress:

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