A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:47 pm

So, having temporarily fitted the gear towers and the secondary springs, we now have a bouncy Class 24 :mrgreen:

Image

I have to say that I've always been a little sceptical about springing - I have half a dozen sprung wagons and, on my small layout at least, I cannot tell the difference between them and the rigid wagons when running along but this is a whole different ballgame, even just pushing the loco along, it feels so different to a loco that has just had a wheel conversion in a rigid chassis. Whilst this revelation is great for running qualities, I can't see it being good for my wallet as I'm not going to want to spring all my locos.

John

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:49 pm

I can't see it being good for my wallet as I'm not going to want to spring all my locos.

I think you meant:-
I can't see it being good for my wallet as I'm now going to want to spring all my locos.
Regards

Resisting but just got my third Penbits kit.

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:54 pm

Thanks for that Keith, you are, of course, correct.

As this one has, so far, gone so well, I'll definitely be picking one up for the Bachmann 47 which, as you well know, has wobbly bogies...

John

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:15 pm

John, it does get addictive!

I think the class 24/5 kit is a great place to start! The others look more complex but are just the same but with a few extra parts!

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:35 pm

James, you are right, it does :D

What I particularly like is how quickly it all goes together, I reckon less than a couple of days if you put your mind to it...

The existing bogies have been chopped up and the side frames fitted (lose for the moment) to the etched sides:

Image

John

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:32 pm

Looks like you've enjoyed it!

Ian's design and instructions are excellent - some other manufacturers could learn a thing or two from these...

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David Thorpe
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby David Thorpe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:42 pm

What did you do about pick-ups? I assume that the Bachmann ones have to be discarded.

DT

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:18 pm

David Thorpe wrote:What did you do about pick-ups? I assume that the Bachmann ones have to be discarded.


They do indeed - the instructions cover this well. Far better than most kits!

I chose to use the 'American' system, so one bogie picks up on one side, and the other on the other.

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:58 pm

David Thorpe wrote:What did you do about pick-ups? I assume that the Bachmann ones have to be discarded.

DT


Not got that far yet but, as James says, there are full instructions...

John

David Knight
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby David Knight » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:57 pm

jameswells83 wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:What did you do about pick-ups? I assume that the Bachmann ones have to be discarded.


They do indeed - the instructions cover this well. Far better than most kits!

I chose to use the 'American' system, so one bogie picks up on one side, and the other on the other.


FWIW; I understand what you mean by the terminology but all the North American diesels I've owned for at least the past 40 years have picked up from all wheels on both bogies.

Cheers,

David

garethashenden
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby garethashenden » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:57 am

David Knight wrote:
jameswells83 wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:What did you do about pick-ups? I assume that the Bachmann ones have to be discarded.


They do indeed - the instructions cover this well. Far better than most kits!

I chose to use the 'American' system, so one bogie picks up on one side, and the other on the other.


FWIW; I understand what you mean by the terminology but all the North American diesels I've owned for at least the past 40 years have picked up from all wheels on both bogies.

Cheers,

David


The "American style" pickup system is called that because it's what is used in imported brass steam engines. Pickup from one rail is from the locomotive, the other rail is picked up by the tender.

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:23 pm

garethashenden wrote:The "American style" pickup system is called that because it's what is used in imported brass steam engines. Pickup from one rail is from the locomotive, the other rail is picked up by the tender.


That's it - the instructions do refer "the 'American' system of pickup". In this case, rather than split over loco and tender, it is each bogie.

http://www.penbits.co.uk/Content/KitDoc ... ckups.html

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:54 am

As I wait for a few supplies to arrive to finish the chassis, I've started work on the body and, so far, I've removed the rain strips from the centre of the roof as they sit far to high up the roof and need to be replaced with microstrip, removed a vent from the roof and filled in the body side steps.

Image

Image

Next up to correct is the grille in the centre of the roof and the large triangles on the body sides...
John

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:19 pm

John, didn't know if these notes from when I was doing one of my class 24s may be of use?

Project 24 Notes - 2.jpg

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:24 pm

Cheers James.

John

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:46 pm

Glad to be of help - hope you can read my writing!

You've already on the main job with the roof, the rainstrips - they do make a big difference!

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:09 pm

You very kindly sent me some other notes via email a couple of years ago. I noticed on your model you opened up the bottom door of the battery charger compartment which was so typical of the 24s that ran on the line and I'm doing the same.

What I didn't realise until someone told me today is that, on the new SLW 24, the panel is removeable and the battery chargers are modelled behind the panel...

Image

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:25 pm

Work is progressing on the chassis and I've got the pickups fitted but I've hit a bit of a snag...

The wheels turn perfectly in their bearings and, when the bearings are slotted in to their guides, the wheels turn and the bogie can be pushed along with no problems at all. Clip the wheels in to the Bachmann drive unit and turn the drive shaft and the wheels revolve with no resistance at all.

However, if I then fit everything together like so:

Image

Then all the freedom has gone and the driveshaft takes quite some force to turn the wheels...

John

David Knight
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby David Knight » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:53 pm

John,

It may just be a matter of distortion in the image but the two sides of the tower supporting the worm gear appear to be splayed out ever so slightly. Is there an added bit in this picture that's not there when you have the wheels in the straight Bachmann drive?

Cheers,

David

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:32 pm

Have you checked it with all parts except the worm? You need to make sure the axles are free to rock slightly so the springs can do their thing and this involves opening out the Bachmann bearings a bit and checking everything is free, and its easier to check without the worm in place allowing all the gears to turn.
Regards

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:42 pm

Thanks gents.

Having looked at it further, the bearing guides are now very stiff in their slots so I'm guessing the the axle holes on the Bachmann mouldings are not lining up exactly with the bearing guides on the PE bogie so it looks like some fettling might be required.

John

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ianpenberth
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby ianpenberth » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:50 pm

Hi John,

My guess would be a mismatch between the axle locations of the drive unit and the subframe. Before you open out the bearings any more, I notice that you have not removed the clips from each end of the drive unit. Are these bearing on the end transoms of the brass subframe? - there should be some daylight between them and the ends of the drive unit, and lack of same might be shifting the axle locations.

HTH
Ian
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:21 pm

Thanks Ian, I hadn't noticed that. I've removed them and it's made no difference, the Bachmann bearings have, as per your instructions, been opened out to 2.1mm so I guess I'm going to have to fettle the bearing slots...

John

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ianpenberth
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby ianpenberth » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:47 pm

Check the fit of the drive unit and wheelsets into the subframe without the springs first - just in case it's not a wheelbase mismatch.

Cheers
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:49 pm

Thanks again for the suggestions, a very slight easement of the bearing and their slots has solved the problem.

John


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