A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

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John Donnelly
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A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:27 pm

Well, here we go, my first go at an etch kit of any sort and my first real go at soldering.

I do have some experience of photo etch as I also model warships in 1/350th scale and those things get covered in PE details but most of it is paper thin and glued together.

Again, I appreciate that this is bread and butter to most of you guys but posting this here will, I hope, keep the mojo going no matter how many mistakes I make...

First up, the main bogies frames are removed from the fret and any cusps cleaned up and the bearing slots are 'fettled' to make sure that the bearings can move freely:

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Next up the bearing carriers:

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First, make sure that the bearings fit in the hole and, if necessary, open them out slightly. Obviously, there are 8 of these but the fret is ingeniously designed so that all the necessary folds can be made before the individual carriers are removed from the fret:

The first fold is made and the join strengthened with very small amounts of solder which I managed without getting it all over the place:

Image

Next, the other 2 folds are made using a mixture of brute force and ignorance (note to self, I really need a vice...)

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So far so good and what I've got matches the instructions at this stage...

John

Mark Forrest
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Mark Forrest » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:06 pm

Watching with interest. I have one for a class 47 that I started a while ago, before getting distracted (no reflection of the kit, the problem is my attention span!) and one for a class 37 in the to do pile.

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:50 pm

And now, the first test of my soldering abilities, soldering the bearings to their carriers. First up, permanent marker is run round the flanges to avoid getting solder on them:

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All ready for soldering:

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Soldering complete:

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And we now have 8 bearing carriers that, despite my cack handed soldering, slide up and down, as intended in their runners on the bogies :thumb

Image

Some more bending and clean up required but I'm getting there...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:26 pm

And to finish today's instalment, here we have the 8 finished bearing carriers:

Image

I will, undoubtedly, live to regret saying this but this soldering lark is no where near as hard as I've thought it was for all these years...

John

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Andy W
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Andy W » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:03 am

You're right, it's not the "black art" many assume it is without having a go. In fact it's often far more controllable than glue, and should result in a much more reliable joint. Great work.
Make Worcestershire great again .

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:02 am

You should have no problems with the kit - Penbits kits are a joy to build and are very well designed :)
James Wells

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:56 am

In fact, IMHO, those bearing carriers are the hardest bit and it looks like you have done a good job with those so you should have no problems with the rest.
Regards

Jeremy Good
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Jeremy Good » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:01 am

John

That's looking like good progress. The two tricky areas are (as Keith says) folding up the bearing carriers especially the final fold of the small lip at the base (that's why Ian now sells spares!) and the detail of the top plank of the loco bolster. I struggled to get these to look right and in the end left the moulded parts on the Bachmann chassis (see my Locos for Lochinver thread).

The kits themselves are well designed and fit very well together taking most of the pain out of what is a fairly substantial rebuild of the RTR chassis.

Good luck!

Jeremy

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:58 pm

Thank you for the encouragement gentlemen, I'm hoping to move on the bogie frames tonight...

John

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James Wells
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby James Wells » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:09 pm

You'll find that once you've finished the bearing carriers that the next stages provide quite rapid progress!
James Wells

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:09 pm

Before I say anything else I'd just like to congratulate Ian Penberth on the instructions for the kit which are among the best I've ever seen in any modelling genre.

Tonights progress so far has seen the bogie frames folded up and the end stretchers folded up and soldered in to place:

Image

Image

I know I'm preaching to the converted here but the more I do the more I have wonder why the hell it has taken me this long to learn how to solder...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:09 pm

And the bogie subframes are finished:

Image

Spring wires pass through all the necessary holes so, so far, nothing is bunged up so a bit of a result.

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:12 pm

I have, perhaps inevitably, made my first mistake while assembling one of the bolsters:

Image

The nut has, as planned soldered in to place but, unfortunately, the bolt has as well.

I appreciate that the way to free it will be heat the whole thing up so the solder melts and then remove the bolt. However, the need to hold the nut in place while heating the area and and unscrewing the bolt at the same time has me stuck and a pair of pliers or a vice to hold the nut appear to be acting as a huge heatsink so I cannot get enough heat in to the solder to free the nut...

Any advice would be appreciated.

John

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John Bateson
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Bateson » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:59 pm

Been there etc....
One thing to do is cut the bolt down to the level of the nut (reduces the volume to be heated) and drill through the nut from the top.
Then use a couple of stationary type bulldog clips either side to hold the nut to the frame , heat the nut and unscrew.

There was some comment at a Crewe Area Group meeting recently about this sort of thing, there was a concensus that the nut should be fitted 'into' the frame and not 'onto' it. This is achieved for lathe owners by turning the last bit of the nut (less than 0.5 mm or the thickness of the frame) and also increasing the size of the hole in the frame as needed. Then fit to the frame by soldering again.

I have yet to do this but it sounds promising, especially for accuracy, currently I use toothpicks pressed through the nut and frame into some balsa wood.

John

Jeremy Good
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:06 pm

This is easily done! Best bet is to unsolder and use a new nut and bolt.

The best method I have found for avoiding soldering the bolt as well is to make sure the bolt is coated with a layer of oil/grease before it is screwed into the nut. This seems to stop the solder from attaching to it. I also now tend to make sure that the face of the nut that is to be soldered to the bolster is filed flat and the bolt tightened securely so that there isn't any opportunity for solder creep!

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Jeremy

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grovenor-2685
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:17 pm

I'm with Jeremy, start again rather that trying to get the bolt out without disturbing the nut, you are on a hiding to nothing with that idea.
And, IMHO, the Penbits kit does not need redesigning its quite do-able as is, the trick is just getting enough grease on the bolt to stop it soldering up without preventing the nut from soldering in place. As Jeremy suggests there is no need for solder in between the nut and the bolster, just a fillet round the nut.
Regards

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:44 pm

Thanks gents, much appreciated. After I'd screwed this one up, I did the second one using a cocktail stick to hold the nut in place, you live and learn :)

John

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Flymo748
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:14 pm

John Donnelly wrote:Thanks gents, much appreciated. After I'd screwed this one up, I did the second one using a cocktail stick to hold the nut in place, you live and learn :)

John


Cocktail sticks are remarkably useful modelling tools. I always have a small pot of them to hand on my workbench. You can even see them hiding behind the big reel of solder in the picture on page 37 of the latest News.

They are used for holding all sorts of small bits down for soldering, applying spots of superglue, centring nuts as you have found, lifting slight smudges of paint when dipped in thinners, and so on and so forth.

I'm really pleased that you have made progress, and I'm sure that you'll sort the first bolster out soon. As has been said, don't try and salvage bits like nuts and bolts as it really is a false economy both in time and in cost.

One tip that I don't think has been mentioned is to use pencil lead instead of grease to stop solder sticking to the threads of the bolt. If you have something like a soft 4B or 6B pencil, you can rub it up and down the threads to act as a mask.

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:16 pm

The offending parts have now been separated and a new nut soldered in place so it is all systems go for the second bolster. I guess that's one of the advantages of solder, you can 'undo'...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:32 pm

Bolsters are now all but complete apart from the representation of the end of the bolster 'plank' - I've tried, and failed to solder one of these so, as they are not structural, I'm going to rely on superglue.

Image

Image

John

nigelcliffe
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby nigelcliffe » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:05 pm

Slightly late, but I'd stop the bolt sticking with pencil lead - put a bit on the brass bolster close to the hole, and also the nut near the centre. Then around the screw thread.

I agree that soldering around the edge is all that's needed, which should stop things locking up solid.

- Nigel

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Well I've stuck with and managed to solder the rest of the bolster pieces and they are now all done:

Image

A bit clean up to do and then either a coat of paint or chemically blacken - is there a preferred method?

Next up the modifications to the Bachmann loco begin...

John

Jeremy Good
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:56 pm

John

I chemically blackened mine but don't do it yet. I found it was better to be sure you were happy that everything goes together well and then blacken before final assembely. Re-soldering parts that aren't quite right after you have blackened them is a tricky task...how do I know???

Jeremy

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:46 pm

Thanks Jeremy.

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: A sprung Class 24 or an exercise in ignorance and persistence...

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:58 pm

A little more progress, the Bachmann bogies have been dismantled and the gear towers have been modified as per the instructions:

Image

A test fit of the wheels and the primary suspension wires. Wheels are the standard Ultrascale drop in conversions so the boss at the back of the wheels has been removed so the wheels fit.

Image

John


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