Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Fri May 24, 2019 6:33 pm

pete55 wrote:Nice one there John......EM wheels would be more use at the moment!!!!


I guess they would :mrgreen:

You've got till September though...

pete55
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:57 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby pete55 » Fri May 24, 2019 6:46 pm

Very true!

Porcy Mane
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Porcy Mane » Fri May 24, 2019 9:07 pm

Looks like the couplings may be the Bill Bedford Screw Link etch Etch (NLA?) with the additional pipework added.

Just been talking to Mr Becareful and he thinks it may be the rake of Iron Ore hoppers that used to stand on Birtley Clubs Ravensworth layout.

Once you get the wheels changed to P4 if you're thinking of running the hoppers on South Pelaw maybe it would be easier ( and considerably less stressful) to change complete bogies. We could "work on" Mr. Bradwell (Hello Dave) next time he's down on Tyneside for a few beers to possibly supply the bogie side castings and we have the technology to draw up some simple rigid frame etches for EM.

Just thinking out loud.

P

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri May 24, 2019 9:42 pm

What a find John - and a time saver, looks great! :D
Allan :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Fri May 24, 2019 10:14 pm

Cheers Paul, I had considered a bogie swap for EM. As for the couplings here's a better shot:

Image

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Fri May 24, 2019 10:16 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:What a find John - and a time saver, looks great! :D
Allan :)


Cheers Allan, huge time saver, more time for all the track :mrgreen:

davebradwell
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby davebradwell » Fri May 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Sorry to disappoint but castings come in sets and etches come in sheets so you can't pick which bits you want unless you can find someone to take those left over. You might be able to make your own replacement bogie sides using casting resin, however, if you feel the need.

Your wheels should just clip out to be replaced by clipping in the replacements. It might seem a bit brutal, though.

DaveB

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Fri May 24, 2019 10:36 pm

davebradwell wrote:
Your wheels should just clip out to be replaced by clipping in the replacements. It might seem a bit brutal, though.


Thanks Dave, I had a quick look at the bogies and hoped it would be a simple wheel swap...

Porcy Mane
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Porcy Mane » Fri May 24, 2019 11:13 pm

John Donnelly wrote:Cheers Paul, I had considered a bogie swap for EM. As for the couplings here's a better shot:



Yep, they look like the old Bill Bedford etches.


davebradwell wrote:Sorry to disappoint but castings come in sets and etches come in sheets so you can't pick which bits you want unless you can find someone to take those left over. You might be able to make your own replacement bogie sides using casting resin, however, if you feel the need.

Your wheels should just clip out to be replaced by clipping in the replacements. It might seem a bit brutal, though.

DaveB


Wishful thinking on my part Dave. I was sort of hoping that the side frames might have been cast as individual batch items.

P

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 26, 2019 7:07 pm

I would just try a straight wheel swap and see if they run without any compensation within the bogie. I have plenty of such like bogie wagons running without trouble and know of many coaches that run without any compensation. If you have any trouble I do have a way of compensating which works and only uses one small screw. I had problems getting some of my Bachman MK 1 coaches to run on Grayrigg and did a quick conversion on the bogies.

Let me know and I could show you what I did with them if necessary.

Allan :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Sun May 26, 2019 8:44 pm

Thanks Allan,

Despite being fitted with OO wheels, the bogies are sprung so I'm hoping a wheel swap will be all that is needed.

John

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:44 pm

Going back to the iron ore wagons tonight and the change of wheels for the bogies which look like this:

Image

Problem I have is that there is no give all in the bogie sides (not a big surprise to be fair) so it is not going to be as simple as dropping P4 wheels in.

At the minute all I can think of is to cut the existing wheels out, cut the P4 axles in half and get some tube with an internal diameter that matches the axle diameter slide it over one of the half axles, put the wheels in and then slide the tube so it covers the join in the axle and secure with epoxy...

Unless anyone has any other bright ideas?


John

bobwallison
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby bobwallison » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:05 am

John,
I am fairly sure that Gibson's OO wheels are the same profile as his EM gauge wheels, and we know from other threads that a few people have successfully re-gauged their EM wheels to run on P4 track. So if there is absolutely no way to remove the OO wheels without destroying them, my suggestion is to try re-gauging them for P4 in-situ. Of course, it won't be proper P4 anymore, which may bother you, and you may decide the wheels don't look right (although they are hardly visible behind the bogie side frames). But it will have cost you no more than a bit of time and it may save a lot of work and cash.

If you do decide to go ahead, I suggest a pair of heavy pliers with serrated jaws to grip the axles, so as to avoid any sideways loads on the bogies and the bearings.

And now I'll run for cover.....

Bob

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:23 am

Thanks Bob, certainly worth a try.

John

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:56 pm

Hi John, :)

Firstly - I am assuming that the axles are running in coned bearings or the castings are coned and the bogies are nice and square.

I had a similar problem when I bought a couple of Hornby Thompson suburban stock - we had tons of them around Fife and although I built some in plasticard years ago I could not fault the Hornby examples - one of the attractions was the fineness of detail on the bogies. When I managed to get them home after being on holiday I began to realise there was no easy way to get the wheels out to convert to scalefour without breaking anything. There was space to put S4 wheels in and the 00 ones ran true.

Like any number of other modellers, we have many diesels running on our layouts all of which have uncompensated wheels and they run well. Also when I make any track I test it all with some uncompensated stock - so the track is pretty good. My solution was to use one of my grinding tools and cut the underside of the axle boxes to take out the axle ends and remove the 00 wheels. I was simple then to drop in the S4 wheel sets and I did not try to remake the axle boxes I simply made covers using black plasticard and painted them up. They run beautifully and have run on a number of other layouts without any problems.

The carriages of course are commercially made and have been well engineered, but if your bogies sit well on a sheet of glass or mirror and there is no discernable rock and roll then they should be OK - could I suggest you try at least one bogie this way and see what the ride is like. A few minutes with a grinding tool will give you a quick answer.

DSC05812.JPG
Here we have the underside with little to see to be honest. the delicacy of the footboards etc. is evident. The coaches are still to be weathered before being used on the Buckhaven /Methil branch on my new Wemyss layout.


DSC05813.JPG
From normal viewing there is no sign of any work having been done. Since your wagons are made of metal then I would probably have used thin brass or nickel silver and glue.


Hope that is of some help John, I know I may get some flack when there is so much springing etc around, but you are looking for solutions and this has worked for me.

Allan :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:37 pm

Thanks Allan.

The bogies are good and square and are sprung to the body so there is every chance your solution will work.

John

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:04 pm

Sounds fine John, :)

Let me know how you get on. I have a batch of carriages to do sometime (probably a while off as I have too much to do over the next few months as I am getting Dubbieside ready for Newcastle this year and the Wemyss project which I hope to complete next year before getting back to Grayrigg which was damaged by water last winter - the coaches are for Grayrigg. Most of my Grayrigg stock has been compensated using a very ancient method used by Exley before the war which requires a small screw and washer and a short length of stiff wire. Haven't written it up anywhere, but is works. If you still have difficulty in getting them to run- I could add the second method here - but try the first method first.

Allan :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:50 am

Thanks again Allan, I'll likely see you at Newcastle.

John

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:41 pm

I'm a bit burnt out by the tracklaying on South Pelaw and with my current office/study undergoing a refurb, I've not really got any space for modelling either but, this afternoon, I dug out a couple of almost finished wagons and got them completed.

They aren't super detailed, nor are they sprung or compensated but as a solo modeller in need of well over 100 wagons for the layout, as I've said before, I have to be pragmatic about what is achievable so they will do for me...

They are, respectively, a Hornby 21T hopper, a Parkside kit of a 21T hopper and a Bachmann brake van.

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:28 pm

Hi John, :D
and very nice too! Very nicely weathered and I bet it felt good just to get something done on the wagon modelling side of things as some of the work on a layout can take quite a bit of time. I have a trainload of hoppers for Grayrigg. There was a regular trainload of hoppers heading for Carlisle new yard taken there by one of two WD locos shedded at Tebay for the trainloads. Most of my hoppers are not compensated but they run perfectly well, cambered tracks and all. However the water that came into the garage has twisted the baseboards and I am going to have to do a bit of rebuilding. :(

I too have taken a break over July and August while I produce a couple of Poetry books and some illustrations for the third children's book I have been working on, recently I have been asked to produce an artwork for an Exhibition coming off in Edinburgh, so I want to produce something for that as well so completion of my layout is being put back further and further. For these reasons nothing has appeared on the forum for a few months. So there are times like that for all of us. Still all the other things are also interesting to be involved in and worthwhile, which I am sure will be the case with your home office reconstruction - fresh surroundings are always a positive in life and will inspire.

Sorry the Newcastle show is not happening this year - I was hoping to have the layout ( phase 1) there but hopefully next year Nigel will be able to go ahead with the show. Our big Glasgow show has been cancelled for next year. The first time the new layout will be out might be Scalefour North next year if it goes ahead. It will still only be phase 1, but a bit further on, to go the full distance will possibly require another two years to add all the more technical things I want to add. I also want to fix and repair Grayrigg perhaps late this summer for the winter season, if I have enough time. :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:55 pm

Cheers for the reply Allan.

I appreciate that I may not be 'getting it all right' but if everything was super detailed, the layout would never be populated with stock. Of course, the layout itself still has to be finished as well... :mrgreen:

As for the shows, I fear it could be a couple of years before we are back to normal...

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:43 pm

Hi John, :D

you may well be right about the shows, it has made me re-schedule my own work and today I was back in the garage setting up Dubbieside to do some repairs and will now spend some of my time repairing Grayrigg after last year's water damage - there may be quite a lot to do unfortunately. :cry:
Dubbie's 50th anniversary as an exhibition layout is coming up and I might put something on myself just to allow this to happen, if there are no shows scheduled just to celebrate. :)

So my new layout for exhibition will take a little longer to complete and will be done in phases instead of going all out for completion before its next showing. :shock: It was intentioned to have it operate from both sides and be viewable from both by the public, but may not be shown that way until the Covid days are over. (Which clearly will not be next week.)

All the best
Allan :)

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:12 pm

Accurascale have come to the rescue with one of the vital wagons for the Consett line, the PTA wagons that took the iron ore to the steelworks from 1974 to closure in 1980.

Wheels have been swapped and all that was required was a slight thinning down of the plastic bosses on the inside of the bogies to allow for the wider wheel sets. Tension lock has been replaced with the supplied screw coupling. The livery markings aren't quite correct for the wagons so they will likely be changed in the future although by the late 70s, the wagons were in such a state is was often difficult to tell which was the orange end let alone what the markings were like.

Image

Image

User avatar
Allan Goodwillie
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:00 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:26 pm

Hi John, :)

The quality of the ready to run stuff nowadays is superb isn't it. I am sure it will save much work. Changing wheels is a doddle and couplings to taste.

I bought another couple of coaches recently which required the same treatment and nothing more. The detail on the coach however was so delicate I was worried about damaging the footsteps and boards to force the replacement of the wheel sets. In the end I used my little grinding drill and opened the underside of the axle boxes and that allowed the wheel sets to drop out, dropped in the new ones and put covers on the undersides of the axle boxes as mentioned on the thread previously. Took me about as long to do this as it has taken to write about! They again run beautifully. So the first two were not just a fluke! This week should see the complete replacement of the main up and down storage boards on Grayrigg and wired up and working again. :thumb The upper tier of the layout will be tackled next.

Allan :D
Last edited by Allan Goodwillie on Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
John Donnelly
Web Team
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Re: Wagons for South Pelaw Junction

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:20 pm

Thanks Allan,

Prior to these being announced, I was considering scratch building but there is no way I could have matched the quality of these, especially with 18 of them required for the layout.

I was talking to Derek a couple of days ago and he said you'd had some bother with water leaks?

John


Return to “John Donnelly”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest