Improving Color Light Signal Components

modelmaker87

Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:18 pm

Hi Guys,

When I made the signals for Charlotte Road and Widnes Vine Yard layouts, at the time, I used the smallest variety LED's I could get hold. These were the popular style 1.8mm diameter with an anode and diode length in the region of around 30mm long or so. The thing I didn't like about these LED's was the fact that they had to stick out further than prototype due to the fact that the equipment box behind the signal head was made to the correct scale dimensions. So it was a choice of either a large too thick out of scale equipment box or the LED's poking out a tad more than I would have liked. To help mask any sidelight emitted form the LED's I painted their sides black. This helped immensely the look of them when in situ on the layout.

The point of all this is that I have successfully developed a method of making lamp bezels. Combining that breakthrough, it is as far as I'm concerened, and the availability of the really small coloured LED's, has enabled me to start making my signals for the Wirral Finescale Railway Modellers exactly to scale. I made a beta shroud to see how it would go, set up, jigs and tooling etc. What surpised me was when I put my old style shroud, the smallest I could make to accomodate the old LED's, against the new accurately scaled size, I was amazed at the huge difference, as the image I have taken side by side shows.

I'm looking forward to making all the new signals for WFRM's new P4 layout, which is currently under construction. These I hope will be of a higher standard in terms of scale accuracy than I have built so far. I used to make an some dimensional adjustments to some of the parts on the older signals to keep the larger shroud/LED combination in proportion, the target board for one. Now I can get these down to exact scale size too, although less noticeable than the shrouds, but nevertheless, I'm pleased with the test single 3 aspect head I'm making at the moment to see if all the changes and techniques I have developed for building colour lights signals will pan out.

Cheers, Tony Sissons
9168_S4Web.jpg

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:13 pm

Tony,
Are you using Surface mount LEDs for these, if so what size? And are you using Coloured LEDs or white ones with coloured lenses?
I look forward to more on these as I have to build some myself to replace the overscale Ekons I have at present.
Regards

modelmaker87

Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:50 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Tony,
Are you using Surface mount LEDs for these, if so what size? And are you using Coloured LEDs or white ones with coloured lenses?
I look forward to more on these as I have to build some myself to replace the overscale Ekons I have at present.
Regards


Hi Keith,

The image shows the LED I'm working with. Its surface mount. The LED shows white but when powered up illuminates its specific colour. These LED's are surprisingly bright, more than I thought possible from such a small source. I feel comfortable that once installed inside the shroud they will shine brightly and have the look and feel of the prototype, no side light emisssion.

Unfortunately I cannot give you details. The guys at WFRM gave me these to work with and so far I have moved forward with the shroud and lens bezel to true 4mm scale and now I'm working on scratchbuilding the target board, platform components and the post, non of which are finished. I will get in touch and ask about these LED's and hopefully get a reply.

Cheers, Tony
9416_signal_LED_size_S4F.jpg

mikewturner
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby mikewturner » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:43 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Tony,
Are you using Surface mount LEDs for these, if so what size? And are you using Coloured LEDs or white ones with coloured lenses?
I look forward to more on these as I have to build some myself to replace the overscale Ekons I have at present.
Regards


Hi Keith

As Tone says the LED's we use are surface mount and are sourced from Bromsgrove Models

http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/pd110 ... white_AND_{EOL}&categoryId=29

Regards

Mike

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:18 pm

I bought this pack of lenses some time ago and just got around to seeing how they fit. Found myself a bit stumped so would welcome some strong hints.
Lenses.jpg
Lenses.jpg (44.56 KiB) Viewed 8610 times

The only instruction is what you can read on the front, says the foil comes away when removing the lenses from the backing sheet. Well not for me, every attempt to remove them results in the lens coming away from the sheet complete with foil. One piece of foil remains on the sheet without lens, but the displaced lens still has its foil. I seem to have 12 lenses and 13 foils. I have tried without success to find a crack for a scalpel blade between foil and lens to no avail.
So please, how do you separate lens and foil, and having done so how do you stick the lens to the signal?
Thanks
Keith

modelmaker87

Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:46 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:I bought this pack of lenses some time ago and just got around to seeing how they fit. Found myself a bit stumped so would welcome some strong hints.
Lenses.jpg

The only instruction is what you can read on the front, says the foil comes away when removing the lenses from the backing sheet. Well not for me, every attempt to remove them results in the lens coming away from the sheet complete with foil. One piece of foil remains on the sheet without lens, but the displaced lens still has its foil. I seem to have 12 lenses and 13 foils. I have tried without success to find a crack for a scalpel blade between foil and lens to no avail.
So please, how do you separate lens and foil, and having done so how do you stick the lens to the signal?
Thanks
Keith


Sorry Keith, unfortunately I can't help, never used MSE's lenses, I prefer to make my own. If you like, I can do a mini clinic on here and show you what I do. It will take a shortish while to get it prepped, let me know. I can answer how to glue them in though, Johnson's Kleer does the trick perfectly. Never drop out either and the lens becomes incredibly clear. Use Johnson's Kleer for all window and structure glazing too. Nothing beats it. Period.

Tony

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:42 pm

Johnson's Kleer does the trick perfectly

Thought you might say that, :) for the rest looks like I will need the other part of the Wirral team.
Regards
Keith

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LesGros
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby LesGros » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:18 pm

Use Johnson's Kleer for all window and structure glazing too. Nothing beats it. Period.

Tony


Where do you obtain your Johnsons Kleer? i've not seen it on the supermarket shelves for quite a while.
regards
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:57 pm

There's been a lot of discussion on this on RMweb. Apparently it has been renamed and maybe reformulated, and the original was last seen in Asda IIRC.
My hoarded bottle will probably last me a few years yet.
Keith

Philip Hall
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:04 pm

I'm pretty sure this is not made any more. Probably someone's been drinking it and they changed the formula. I think this was mentioned in the Snooze a while back, when the merits of the stuff were first being expounded. I seem to remember that the replacement formula was a bit cloudy. When I was working at Robert Dyas the supplies dried up, and I managed to get a couple of bottles when I saw how little we had left.

Philip

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:07 pm

Last seen on sale down here in 'Poundland'...and was in Asda's about a week or so ago. Availability looks like it depends on area to some extent.

cheers

Mike

modelmaker87

Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:01 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:There's been a lot of discussion on this on RMweb. Apparently it has been renamed and maybe reformulated, and the original was last seen in Asda IIRC.
My hoarded bottle will probably last me a few years yet.
Keith


Keith, and everyone.

Yes, Kleer/Future has been discontinued, and yes, I have read the texts posted on RMWeb. I have purchased Johnson's replacement product for Kleer (Future). It is called "Pledge" on the label it states Pledge with Future. I have used it and it is as far as I'm concerned, identical. Try some, try it on a piece of clear acetate, check it when it has dried, the acetate will look fine. Try gluing a piece of scrap acetate glazing ona a piece of scrap styrene, it will stick fine. Try using it for ballasting, it works great and far and away superior to PVA method. I am using it on my signal lenses, it works great.

Back to Andrew Hartshorne's second response ref your original posting, Keith. He writes:

"Tony,

First one I tried left the foil on the backing, with thumbnail alone....

Isopropyl alcohol seems to help - I say seems as I didn't have any problems persuading a scalpel to take the backing off. Admittedly under a magnifying lamp, and with many years experience of manipulating small things with scalpels etc.

I've left a couple soaking in IPA overnight to see what happens.

As for fixing in place, the lenses are sized to fit nicely in the hood tube, so a touch of thinned gloss varnish/nail varnish ought to suffice.

Andrew Hartshorne"

Cheers, Tony

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James Moorhouse
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby James Moorhouse » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:28 pm

The new formula for Klear has been labelled Pledge Multi-Surface Wax in the UK.

modelmaker87

Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:03 pm

Keith,

Received following e-mail today from Andrew at MSE:

"Tony,

I can now confirm that an overnight soaking in IPA means that the lenses can be slid off the foil, with no adverse effects on the lens itself. Give the lens a wash in fresh IPA afterwards to get rid of the dissolved foil/backing glue.

Andrew Hartshorne

Wizard Models
www.wizardmodels. co.uk

Now you know and I've learned something.

Cheers, Tony

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:13 pm

Thanks Tony,
I hope everyone has, now to find IPA :)
Regards
Keith

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LesGros
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby LesGros » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:18 pm

...now to find IPA :)


Maplin usually have it; in plastic containers and sprays.

Cheers
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

harrysaunders
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby harrysaunders » Tue May 25, 2010 8:33 am

IPA......India Pale Ale?

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Flymo748
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Flymo748 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:30 am

harrysaunders wrote:IPA......India Pale Ale?


Hi Harry,

Alas, nothing so interesting (although I prefer a spot of Broadside myself...), but Isopropyl Alcohol.

There is a useful factsheet here: http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/GPS/E ... ummary.pdf

HTH
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

harrysaunders
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby harrysaunders » Wed May 26, 2010 4:56 pm

Flymo, Thank you for that.

(I think I'll stick to tea & coffee)

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Horsetan
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Horsetan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:12 am

This is all intensely interesting. Is it possible to see the shade of green that these SMDs put out? It should be more towards blue in the spectrum than yellow.

Found a little bit of info about it here

If the surface mount LEDs are available as tri-colour LEDs, then might we soon see replicas of the new-type Dorman LED heads?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

modelmaker87

Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby modelmaker87 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:35 pm

Horsetan wrote:If the surface mount LEDs are available as tri-colour LEDs, then might we soon see replicas of the new-type Dorman LED heads?


Horsetan,

Am building a tri colour light signal at this time. Beta unit works like a champ. I sent Mike Turner, a member of the WFRM modelling group, a final assembly of scratch built parts and yesterday I received them back with the LED fitted and all wires neatly soldered. I don't do electrics. Now to make a couple more components and get it assembled, painted and deliver it back to Mike so it can be fitted on the layout. No doubt I'll write it up for one of the train rags in due time like I did with the gantries I made a few years back.

Later, Tony Sissons

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beast66606
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby beast66606 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:51 pm

modelmaker87 wrote:
Horsetan wrote:If the surface mount LEDs are available as tri-colour LEDs, then might we soon see replicas of the new-type Dorman LED heads?


Horsetan,

Am building a tri colour light signal at this time. Beta unit works like a champ. I sent Mike Turner, a member of the WFRM modelling group, a final assembly of scratch built parts and yesterday I received them back with the LED fitted and all wires neatly soldered. I don't do electrics. Now to make a couple more components and get it assembled, painted and deliver it back to Mike so it can be fitted on the layout. No doubt I'll write it up for one of the train rags in due time like I did with the gantries I made a few years back.

Later, Tony Sissons


Shall I start digging the hole Tone - we will need at last 7 people to plant this one otherwise it won't be fine scale enough ;)
DAS
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All opinions are mine and mine alone
http://www.wirralfinescale.com
http://www.johnskipsey.fotopic.net

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Horsetan
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Horsetan » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:49 pm

modelmaker87 wrote:
Horsetan wrote:If the surface mount LEDs are available as tri-colour LEDs, then might we soon see replicas of the new-type Dorman LED heads?


Horsetan,

Am building a tri colour light signal at this time. ...


Would be good to see a photo of it - haven't seen anyone attempt to do the Dorman searchlight-type LED heads before.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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beast66606
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby beast66606 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:02 pm

In good time Horsetan, in good time :)
DAS
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All opinions are mine and mine alone
http://www.wirralfinescale.com
http://www.johnskipsey.fotopic.net

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Re6/6
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Re: Improving Color Light Signal Components

Postby Re6/6 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:52 am

beast66606 wrote:
Shall I start digging the hole Tone - we will need at last 7 people to plant this one otherwise it won't be fine scale enough ;)


Dave, are you sure that you don't need 10? ;)
John


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