Scalefour Forum

Does anyone know if the Roger Murray range of colour light signals are still available and where from. In addition, can they be dismantled? What I want to do is remove the base - the bit at the bottom with the supporting ribs, for one of the Eastern Region? style round bases as seen around the ex GER lines in East Anglia, and on GCR/GNR lines in Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire. I'll have to turn the new base up from brass.

I don't think Roger is manufacturing anymore Michael

I spoke to Roger about six months ago and he was still making signals albeit with a very full orderbook. Because of the latter he no longer advertises and takes personal orders only. This could have changed though. I can't find his contact details at the moment but from memory was a Farlington, Portsmouth number. I didn't follow it up as I enrolled on the signal making course! Does anybody know if Tony is going to continue with it? I need them feathers!

Cheers.

Brian

Countryman wrote: Does anybody know if Tony is going to continue with it? I need them feathers!

Cheers.

Brian

Brian,

Do you mean my yahoo online signal clinic, Brian...? The reason I put the brakes on that was because of my commitment to Phil Atkinson of Hobby Holidays. In fact it was this past weekend that I was over at Hobby Holidays presenting my colour light signal building course. You should have been there, was great fun and one of the fellows on the course walked out with a fully functional 3 aspect signal he made over the weekend. I could have shown you how to make those feathers.

Phil has asked me to do another course which I accepted. Therefore because Phil Atkinson derives his income from this enterprise, which is focused on and for us railway modellers, that its the right thing to do to continue to keep the yahoo thing on the top shelf for the time being. I do and have done commissions but don't advertise it. If someone asked me to do a project for them I would seriously study it and return with a price and delivery date, given their ability to pay me in advance.

I'll be at the Wigan show in two weeks time manning the Scalefour Society stand if you want to have a chat. I can even show you how to build a feather there. I have committed to the Wigan organisers to help them with steward duties, so the Wirral guys will be manning the S4 stand in shifts, as it were.

Cheers, Tony

Hi Tony,

Yes, I do mean the Yahoo clinic! Thanks for the clarification as I had wondered why it had gone quiet. Shame, but I completely understand where you are coming from in these difficult times. I would love to chat to you at Wigan but I am afraid that I cannot get over to the UK this year. Is it possible to have the dimensions of the feathers (LMR 5 lunar not SR 3 lunar) without compromising any commercial considerations?

All the best,

Brian

Hi Brian,

Ooooh, Brian. LMR lunar 5. Is this an older London Midland Railway design...? All the info I have is for equipment used on the British rail network of today. I have to admit I am unsure exactly what an LMR lunar 5 is. Any possibility you can post a picture or something here to help me to perhaps help you..!!

Cheers, Tony

Hi Tony,

I know a man who has photos of said feathers

beast66606 wrote:Hi Tony,

I know a man who has photos of said feathers

Good one Dave, maybe we can help Brian then afterall.

Cheers, Tony

Hi Tony & Dave,

Oh dear, I think that it is my poor use of nomenclature that is confusing things! I grew up with Kichenside and Williams’ British Railway Signalling which describes the scenario as follows:

“...a junction indicator. On running lines this indicator usually takes the form of a series of three or five white lights aligned at 45 degrees to the left or right, according to the direction of the divergence. These white or lunar lights are illuminated only when the diverging route is set up...”

Hence I was asking for a London Midland Region (LMR) five light ‘feather’ as opposed to a Southern Region three light device. Sorry for the confusion!

Cheers.

Brian

I found Roger's details:

Roger Murray
11 Osprey Close
Farlington
Portsmouth
Hants
PO6 1LP
(023) 9237 2273

Cheers.

Brian

I found Roger's details:

This has prompted me to add an extra note to the advice section, see Personal Privacy
Please take note.
Regards

grovenor-2685 wrote:

I found Roger's details:

This has prompted me to add an extra note to the advice section, see Personal Privacy
Please take note.
Regards

Keith is, of course, quite right to remind me of this. The information is on page 24 of 'British Railway Modelling' January 1998. All I have done is to update the Portsmouth dialling code from 01705. A quick look at BT's onine phone book reveals that Roger's number is freely available and not ex-directory.

Brian

Thanks Brian, no problem.

Roger is a MERG member so if anyone wants to contact him via email I could forward a request.
Regards

I have just taken delivery of one of Roger's ground signals. Very nice. One thing though. Have the railways changed the way such signals operate? This one has red in the bottom left , white on top and white bottom right. I have a picture of a Deltic leaving Peterborough which shows this arrangement. The signals I see now have red showing on both bottom left and right as default. Ground signals nowadays seem to be predominantly multi bulb/LED type instead of the traditional single bulb . I think this is one area more research is needed in as there are many changes happening.

As the person who started this thread off I had assumed that it had run its course and hadn't bothered to check if it was "active"for some time.

Yes, the standard for position light shunt signals from their inception until recently was as you describe, the aspect was primarily given by position, two horizontal lights for 'on' and two lights at 45 degrees for 'off'. The bottom right lamp was common to both aspects, the bottom left that only relates to the 'on' aspect could be red (or yellow if it could be passed at danger in the manner of a yellow disc signal). But if the glass was broken it could be white, but that would still mean 'on'.
Apparentlt the railways were to mean to use 4 lamps so allowing for 2 red ones. But with the redesign of signals to use LEDs the opportunity was taken to make this improvement.
See http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule%20Book%20Modules/S%20-%20Signals/GERT8000-S1%20Iss%201.pdf section 2.7

Regards
Keith

Thanks for that. I did suspect that the rules/signals had changed. The booklet is very informative. Would it not be an idea to have it placed in the Scalefour (and MERG) reference section. Is there a corresponding one on block working, etc.?
As Dave Bradwell states in MRJ 195 "The best way to do something is very often the way the real thing did it."
I have made mistakes simply because I didn't know how the real railway did it, be it track arrangement, signalling, shunting or what ever.
Now I've got to fit it on the layout!

Would it not be an idea to have it placed in the Scalefour (and MERG) reference section.

I did just get the link from our website links page where it has been available for a year or two.
Regards
Keith

Roger Murray's range is now available from new owners Absolute Aspects

Hopefully supplier.text has been updated.

I bought some Roger Murray signals recently and have decided I can do better. I've started on the Westinghouse round base with a concrete foundation which has taken an hour or two. I like the head and the lights but the ladder is a bit coarse. Does anyone have any dimensions as to the ladder rung spacing?

The signal in question. I asked the contractors about it and they asked a stupid price (and it would have been theft as they would not have told Network Rail). Network Rail would not sell it unless it was to " a preservation group". It went for scrap I guess. Businesses complain about red tape but they are the biggest problem themselves.

Horsetan wrote:Roger Murray's range is now available from new owners Absolute Aspects

Just had a look on this site - some very nice colour lights, but...

In the gallery are some pics of a layout called "Pendennis" and I quote:=-

"Some of the semaphore signals are still in place but have been taken out of railway use and fitted with white crosses for the driver's information."

Oh dear, this a a classic modelrailwayism - any signal "taken out of use" must be removed before the line is returned to traffic - a cross on a signal signifies that it has been installed but not yet brought into use.
It would never happen on a P4 layout of course

Best wishes,

Horsetan wrote:Roger Murray's range is now available from new owners Absolute Aspects

Hopefully supplier.text has been updated.

Absolute Aspects is now up for sale, lock stock and barrel.

Hardwicke wrote:I bought some Roger Murray signals recently and have decided I can do better. I've started on the Westinghouse round base with a concrete foundation which has taken an hour or two. I like the head and the lights but the ladder is a bit coarse. ....

The Murray signals were mostly ex-Cockrobin Controls whitemetal castings, so the sighting board is a bit thick and the hoods are a bit heavy. Absolute Aspects kept them in production because it was cheaper than investing in finer tooling. Better looking hoods are available from MSE, as are plain lenses.

Eight years later, don't know if you solved the ladder problem in the end, but MSE do a fair few types of ladder....

Thanks for the bit of history. I didn't realise any of that. The Bachmann signals look good and I've bought one for testing. The project is still ongoing but on the bsck burner. I must go down to the old branch and find the battered ladder now embedded in a tree that grew through it. I can get measurements at least...