LMS 3F Tank

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Hardwicke
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LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:07 am

I'm building an LMS 3F tank (Bachmann) in 1950 hybrid LMS/BR livery. The numbers on the HMRS sheet are too large for the bunker. I guess BR had a similar problem and they were hand painted. Is anything available as a solution? Does anyone make 3.5 mm or 3mm scale transfers or should I look at non railway lettering?
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:17 am

20170428_230604.jpg
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

John Palmer
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby John Palmer » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:44 pm

Possible candidates as suitable transfer sheets are Fox Transfers' 3mm height Cheltenham Medium, either in off-white/straw or orange (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/general-alphabets-linings/alphabet-in-off-33563 and https://fox-transfers.co.uk/general-alphabets-linings/alphabet-in-orange-33729). Not sure whether these will be narrow enough; for your chosen number, 5 X 1.5mm appears to be the maximum numeral width that can be accommodated by the bunker side sheets on the standard shunting tank.

Assuming that you are retaining the HMRS sheet for the 'LMS' lettering on the tank sides, your biggest problem may be getting an acceptable colour match in the non-HMRS numeral transfers. Unfortunately, Fox Transfers don't seem to offer a 5mm height sheet in the same typeface and corresponding colours. Some judicious weathering may help to conceal the difference between colours.

To assist in lining up individual numerals, I attached a little positioning jig cut from styrene to the side sheets of 58047, using a strip of masking tape to hold it in place. This helped maintain a constant height for each numeral and equidistant spacing. Sorry it's a bit out of focus, but the attached photo may help show this.
Numbering aid for 58047.jpg
Rather than using a fibre tip pen to mark numeral centres so crudely, I would now score the appropriate marks into the styrene with a scalpel tip and rub pencil graphite into the score lines to make them show up.

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steve howe
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby steve howe » Mon May 01, 2017 8:33 pm

I like the look of the Bachmann 3F as a candidate for my Inglenook (Horsley Lane Goods) are you converting the chassis or building from kit?

Steve

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue May 02, 2017 11:15 am

I used the Bachmann (and have another to convert) but to be honest after crawling around LMS 47327 (14410) I found so many mistakes on the Bachmann model it is better to build new. For a start all the handrails are far too large, the steps on the tank fronts are in the wrong place, lots of items missing, the safety valves look too tall and the fit of the dome is dreadful. The running of Bachmann stuff can be a bit hit and miss too. a minor niggle becomes a major problem in P4. The Brassmasters accessory kit has a lot of add ons but there are some parts that are unidentifiable - some whitemetal pipes and the instructions are not as comprehensive as I'd like. It would have been nice if the kit had the Midland dome, Furness lubricators, alternative sand box filler locations, alternative buffers instead of just the add on footsteps and Ramsbottom safety valves too. I've not bought the High Level chassis but have faith in it from his previous items. 16410 has the rods off one of the original series 7129 ! Once the brake pull rods are on it is very awkward to adjust anything on the chassis. Bachmann like to solder/glue things in inaccessible places. Changing the pick ups for P4 is not easy on modern chassis where the 00 brigade have won by getting manufacturers to put the brakes in the wrong place. This also causes all sorts of clearance problems, so much so I am very wary of buying new Hornby and Bachmann wagons or coaches (BR brake Hornby and Mk2 coaches Bachmann are particularly bad). Dapol Western also suffers a similar fate. I have a couple of Gibson kits part built and they have their own problems (probably the builders not the design)
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue May 02, 2017 11:18 am

From the Wild Swan book it states the 3F's should have 8 inch high gilt or yellow numbers on the bunker for the early serif BR (ex LMS) numbers. HMRS don't do them. Just as I was beginning to have faith in the HMRS again.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue May 02, 2017 12:14 pm

What's the best way to remove Methsfix transfers?
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Mark Tatlow
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue May 02, 2017 3:38 pm

Hardwicke wrote:What's the best way to remove Methsfix transfers?


More meths.............unless you have sealed them with varnish they will come off fairly easily with meths.
Mark Tatlow

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Sadly the Fox Transfers are incorrect. The "3" should have a flat top. Even though apparently quite a few Scottish LMS locos had 8 inch numbers, no one makes them.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sun May 14, 2017 10:45 pm

Oh, the meths removed the paint too !

The loco is running like a pig again. It seems something is not square or there is a miss match between the wheelbase/ cranks / rods. But only in one direction. The Brassmaster rods are impossible to set up, 2 axles at a time with the Bachmann chassis, due to the way they are articulated by the rivet. Or at least very difficult. The instructions don't help and there are cast items in there I cannot identify. The picture of the etch and the actual etch differ as well. Grumble over.
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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:48 pm

It seems the Bachmann chassis was not square. a long steel rod was placed in and showed a definite angle on two on the axle slots. This has been corrected.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:39 pm

I've lettered the loco and first thick layer of dirt before the thinners were added. Dome missing as it fell off. The Bachmann fitting is dreadful and needed re sitting.

20170825_225138.jpg
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:43 pm

I know it has 1928 letters on the tanks and 1946 numbers on the bunker. That's how it was. Photographic evidence. Coal rails as per Job No 5040, Derby Works O/350 1937.

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Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:46 pm

The weathering has dried after 20 hours. Thinners allowed the lettering through. LMS lettering.BR number. Nottingham circa 1947.

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Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:25 pm

47433 is now complete and has gone to pastures new.

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Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:30 pm

It has had the dome seated correctly (Bachmann made a mess of it), a new smokebox lamp iron as the original is delicate and broke. The Bachmann one is also a BR lamp iron, not an LMS one. 6 coal rails. New brake levers and frame extensions from Brassmasters. New injectors based on the rather bulky and odd Brassmasters one. New couplings, Kings Cross Models shedplate. Numbers by Fox though they are still too large. The front one is too large for the plate on the model. No one makes the correct side numbers. "LMS" by HMRS Methfix ( The best). Wheels by Gibson.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:35 pm

And the real thing at Swanwick Junction. Note; it has no hinges on the smokebox door. It is also in the spurious S&DJR livery. One thing I found it has the rods from one of the early 3F's without the hole in the side tanks !



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Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Will L
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Will L » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:20 pm

Interesting to note that the dome and chimney on the real things are, if any thing, less well seated than the ones on your model!

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:54 pm

It does show the danger of using an extant loco as Bachmann have done and modelling it. 23 has BR / late LMS buffers, cut out in the cab floor (well the floor was actually totally missing) coal extension plate, Vac pipe protector/step, no sandboxes in the tank cut out, rivetted buffer plank, turned up steps, not sure if it's a Fowler or Stanier chimney, no Furness lubricator and although it is missing, a BR lamp iron on the smokebox. The Bachmann model is in reality a bit of a hotch potch of times and styles.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: LMS 3F Tank

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:56 pm

Just noticed, 23 has no safety valves. ( I knew it has no cab windows)
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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