Swanage.

[Hardwicke]

Does anyone know which Q1's ran to Swanage? There's a brief mention of them seen on the same excursions that U's were on but nothing else.

[Noel]

The 1960s were a decade of great change for the railways, and the same is true of bus company PSVs and coaches. What was there at the beginning of the decade mostly wasn't by the end, and vice-versa. The two local 'territorial' bus companies were Hants and Dorset Motor Services and Southern National Omnibus Co.; both were BTC owned from 1948. Apart from orders made previously, from 1948 to 1965 both would have purchased only Bristol/ECW vehicles, and, with the same qualification, no-one else would, as both Bristol and Eastern Coach Works were also owned by the BTC and were prohibited from selling to anyone else until the latter year.

Post-war, Bristol produced the L single decker in several forms [L, LL, LWL], but in the early 1950s replaced it with the LS, followed by the MW in the late 1950s and the RE in 1964. All could be bodied as coaches as well as service buses. The post-war double decker was the K [K, KS, KSW], replaced in 1954 by the LD series Lodekka and from 1959 by the flat floor FL/FS Lodekka. All of these designs had variations in length and sometimes width, engine and floor height. There were also small buses for lightly used country routes, initially the SC4LK in 1954, which was replaced in 1961 by the SU [SUS, SUL]. Because of licensing rules, most buses would have stayed in service with their original purchasers for about 12 years before disposal.

Fleet details and histories of both companies are available on https://localtransporthistory.co.uk/

Bristol/ECW coaches were unique in appearance, but with most other manufacturers what was generally identifiable was who built the body, as most bodies could be fitted to most chassis; latterly, in many cases, only the chassis builders badge on the front made it possible to tell who they were.

[Hardwicke]

Thanks Noel.
Excellent reply. I bought a couple of buses yesterday. One Bristol and one Leyland Black and White Association coach which was introduced I'm told in '64. I'll be after one of the twin front wheeled Plaxton body Bedford SB coaches as I've a picture of one hiding behind the Goods Shed. If one is available I'll get one as the blue Italian Job....
Having looked it up I see the Italian Job wasn't a Plaxton

[Noel]

'll be after one of the twin front wheeled Plaxton body Bedford SB coaches as I've a picture of one hiding behind the Goods Shed.

If it's twin steer it's a VAL, introduced in 1962, not an SB, which was introduced in 1950 and was a two-axle replacement for the OB, but rather larger and with more seats. I presume that this particular photo was taken after the goods yard closed? What BR would allow to be parked on their premises and where is something else which changes over time .

[Hardwicke]

IMG20230910132307.jpg

Photos reviewed from the Middleton Press book.

'll be after one of the twin front wheeled Plaxton body Bedford SB coaches as I've a picture of one hiding behind the Goods Shed.

If it's twin steer it's a VAL, introduced in 1962, not an SB, which was introduced in 1950 and was a two-axle replacement for the OB, but rather larger and with more seats. I presume that this particular photo was taken after the goods yard closed? What BR would allow to be parked on their premises and where is something else which changes over time .

[Noel]

The station appears to be still open [various pedestrians and a service bus approaching the forecourt]. If so, BR would have permitted parking on the forecourt by BTC/THC/NBC companies' vehicles, but not usually those of competitors. Southern National had no Bedfords before its demise in 1969, so the vehicle presumably belongs to Hants and Dorset. H & D had its first batches of Bedford VAMs [a smaller relative of the VAL] in 1967 and 1968, but these were buses, with different bodies and a different livery. Their first VALs and SBs arrived in 1969, both bodied as coaches. SBs had the front axle at the very front of the chassis [with the nearside door behind the axle], whereas the VALs and VAMs had the front axles behind the driver, with the door at the very front. The front axle is not visible, so this is appears to be a VAM or VAL, and the coach livery shows it's a VAL, which gives a date between summer 1969 and closure, 3/1/72.

The service bus is either a LS or a MW, the poor reproduction by Middleton makes it impossible to be sure which, but the late date makes the latter more likely. The livery changed from green to poppy red after the formation of NBC.

[Hardwicke]

[quote="Noel"]The station appears to be still open /quote]
The photo is June 1970. Its in the Ian Allan book..My mistake.
My knowledge of buses is nothing like that of railways. I've done the equivalent of putting a TOPS blue 33 on Swanage.

[Neil Smith]

For what it's worth, which is not a lot, in part because this is a memory from the 70s and early 80s, but given the longevity of bus types it may be relevant.

My memories of numerous holidays in Swanage when we were reliant on buses to get around was that most local bus services were run using Bristol lightweights - Noel will have to clarify the type - because being smaller as well as possibly of lighter construction (I defer to Noel again!!) they were allowed on the Sandbanks ferry on the service to Bournemouth, but also were able to squeeze up the narrow streets to do town services e.g. to Durlston. I think it was the likes of a Bristol RE working in from Wareham but we would only have used these to get to Corfe

Hants and Dorset in the mid 70s was, as I remember it, entirely populated with Bristol RE and lightweight singledeckers and VR double deckers until the arrival of the (rattling) Leyland Nationals. Even when they did, the REs continued in service for some time.

Hope this is of some help.

Neil

[bécasse]

And talking of the Sandbanks ferry, buses that worked that route had specially fitted upturned rear ends so that the bus didn't ground on the ferry ramps at extreme states of tide.

[Noel]

From 1958 the Sandbanks ferry could carry buses and coaches up to 10 tons, and their traffic in 1992/3, that vessel's final year before being replaced by a larger version, came to almost 8,500. Bus and coach weights varied for nominally the same vehicle, depending on the engine installed, who built the body, seating numbers and passengers, but Bristol LS and MW and Bedford VAL should have been below the limit, along with quite a lot of other single deckers. I did overlook one possibility earlier, in that the VAL/VAM could have been from another NBC company, rather than H & D, on a private hire day trip, but I think this is probably less likely.

[Noel]

And talking of the Sandbanks ferry, buses that worked that route had specially fitted upturned rear ends so that the bus didn't ground on the ferry ramps at extreme states of tide.

The relationship between chain ferry ramps and the landing ramps should be the same at all states of the tide.