Delivering the Goods

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David B
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby David B » Sun May 03, 2020 10:34 am

A clearer view, Pete.
Cattle-under_c3694.jpg

You have done me a favour. Having taken the picture I see I have forgotten to remove the V hangers.

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Will L
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby Will L » Sun May 03, 2020 12:47 pm

I made one of those, one of my first etched kits, successfully assembled with superglue If I rememberer correctly. But that was a very long time ago. Given these were among the early two sided etched kits they are remarkably good. Mine is painted (except the roof) but not lettered. It goes back to the days when I thought I might model the LNWR (being born close to Bletchley station). The switch of allegiance to the GER has left it in the "to be finished someday pile" for longer than I care to think about. Conversion to P4 would also be necessary now. Also see the carriage truck that PC produced at much the same time.

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David B
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby David B » Sun May 03, 2020 1:48 pm

I have two of the carriage trucks in my 'maturing box'. There are aspects which have been done better in later etched kits and some better. These make something quite acceptable. The weakest point is the W irons, the fold of which I had to strengthen because the irons kept splaying and wheels coming out of the bearings.

Can you suggest a suitable paint (colour) for the LNWR Quick Brown?

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Will L
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby Will L » Sun May 03, 2020 2:31 pm

David B wrote:...The weakest point is the W irons, the fold of which I had to strengthen because the irons kept splaying and wheels coming out of the bearings.

I don't seem to have had that problem, but then I've never tried to run them. I will keep it in mind if ever try the P4 conversion.
Can you suggest a suitable paint (colour) for the LNWR Quick Brown?

At the time I believed (from the instructions?) that for a vehicle pre WW1 an all over coat of passenger livery plumb was in order with a black underframe. I haven't learned better since, but that means nothing as I then become more interested in a different company and a different era (1930's) too.

nf.newling
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby nf.newling » Sun May 03, 2020 3:25 pm

Just a minor comment on the mites. I have a pair in the "to be finished" pile. I believe the bolsters should be centre pivoted with sector plates fitted underneath the ends to take the weight and limiting travel. I could not find the detail for these plates at the time, hence the stalled completion. Must get them out and finish them now I have found some pictures of what is required.
Nigel

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David B
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby David B » Sun May 03, 2020 5:27 pm

Will L wrote:
David B wrote:Can you suggest a suitable paint (colour) for the LNWR Quick Brown?

At the time I believed (from the instructions?) that for a vehicle pre WW1 an all over coat of passenger livery plumb was in order with a black underframe. I haven't learned better since, but that means nothing as I then become more interested in a different company and a different era (1930's) too.

I was working from the new volumes on LNWR wagons (LNWR Society; Wild Swan) where, in Volume 1, it refers to their livery being 'Quick Brown'. I have spoken to several people who have not been able to identify this and sent a couple of emails off (including to the LNWR Society) to which I am awaiting replies.

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Neil Smith
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby Neil Smith » Sun May 03, 2020 7:54 pm

David B wrote:Can you suggest a suitable paint (colour) for the LNWR Quick Brown?


Hi David,

In "LNWR Liveries" (Pendragon aka Atlantic & HMRS) it states that horseboxes (and carriage trucks) were painted in carriage lake until about 1900, after which they received "quick brown". This is described as "a mixture of Indian red and black, possibly with the addition of a quantity of burnt turkey umber".

The book goes on to say "at a distance, this dark chocolate colour was barely distinguishable from the lake of the carraiges, but at a closer range was less lustrous and transparent. The colour was in fact a dark purple brown which was intended as as close approximation of the expensive lake".

(It then goes on to discuss lining (which was discontinued c 1916 due to wartime economies) and lettering which isn't an answer to your question so I won't transcribe here but do ask if you want this.)

Unfortunately, despite being an HMRS publication, there is no practical advice regarding suitable modern paints to replicate Quick Brown, so I realise none of this answers your question... Although the official specification for the mix to produce the passenger lake IS quoted in the book, there is no recipe given for the quantities of black and Indian red (with or without umber) to produce "quick brown" so the only option there would be to get some Furness Indian Red and some black, and play about with mixing til you get something that is "barely distinguishable" from carriage lake?!

(Or perhaps there is the comfort that it was "barely distinguishable" - which may amount to the rule about "normal viewing distances", etc.?! This also throws up a question in my mind about whether the paints available to model the LNWR lake colour manage to convey the lustre and transparency that is suggested, because again, if they don't, they might as well be used for "quick brown" too?)

I do have a plan to do a LNWR horsebox or three at some point, so I am learning something for myself here too. I can only hope that when I get myself a kit that it turns out as well as yours clearly have. (Edit - I realise yours are prize cattle boxes, it was the build quality I was referring to ahem.)

Hoping this helps?!

All the best

Neil

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David B
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby David B » Mon May 04, 2020 11:32 am

nf.newling wrote:I believe the bolsters should be centre pivoted with sector plates fitted underneath the ends to take the weight and limiting travel. I could not find the detail for these plates at the time, hence the stalled completion.

Perhaps this will help, Nigel. You are quite right about the sector plates which are very short. In fact, they do not appear to be a sector, rather two straight bearers. The diagram comes from GWR Goods Wagons, Atkins, Beard & Tourret, Fig 164 p192. There were two types of these Mites, earlier (built c1881) with a single plank around the floor which was cut away in the middle of each side to allow the bolster to swing. The other, later, type (built c1896) had a metal side that was lower, which was continuous and the bolster cut away so that it went over the top of the side. Both appear to have been to Diagram J9 and there are pictures of both types in the book. They were actually Mite B as they both had D-chain shackles, according to the book.

Mite-B.jpg

Clicking on the image brings up a larger copy.

IANATEXTON
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby IANATEXTON » Mon May 04, 2020 1:35 pm

Hi David

Isn't the practical thing for the horseboxes to use LNWR coach lake, but to finish with a matt varnish? In other words, the same basic colour but with a flat rather than gloss or satin sheen.

I doubt that there will be many people around who had seen the real thing and would be in a position to say that you had got it wrong.

Ian

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David B
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Re: Delivering the Goods

Postby David B » Tue May 05, 2020 1:37 pm

Two more items done and off my bench. I had a couple of Morgan iron mink underframes spare, so I have put them under two Ratio bodies which I originally made about 40 years ago. It's amazing to realise that kits from that era are still available. These are not as good as the Morgan iron mink (available from Jeremy at the Scalefour Stores) but they help to pad out a train . . . or I might sell them.

I have re-buffered them with sprung buffers. The small G and W will go as I am now modelling an earlier era which need the large G and W, so that will be a job to do when I get round to working on the queue that is growing for the paintshop.

Ratio_c3704.jpg


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