Signals for Minories

davebradwell
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Signals for Minories

Postby davebradwell » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:21 am

I'd better post my effort, then - NER ND:

IMG_1108.JPG


I believe dolls are mainline size and slightly over the probably correct 6 1/2" square at top. Small dolls at 5 1/2" (possibly) seemed a step too far at the time. Deck is D&S so pitch wrong and too thin. Next signal will have my own deck which also enables the handrail supports to be improved. I've attempted to put some depth on the bracket by adding external verticals. In avoiding extreme detail I can't be doing with forks on wires and ladders are the MSE etch with wire soldered on top of stiles and dressed - it's always interesting how folk choose what is important to them. It's now painted in standard Northern Division dark grey. It did have pva glasses but the colours were condemned so had to go. Prototype in my late photo didn't have any glass either! Perhaps Mr Tatlow's finials might be more delicate. It's been suggested to me that these should be glued on so disaster is avoided if you catch them during operating.

Looked more closely at my flat lattice post photo and offset is not quite half pitch so 8" say. You can just see that mine are half-etchd. I've also found an M&H drg scaling at around 4 1/2" offset so that will have been the case somewhere in the world.

Haven't really done much with signals for a while but was attempting to get back to it when I was forced to change etcher so haven't had the heart to redraw to new format. A chance for a few tweaks one day. They certainly make loco valve gear seem a doddle.

DaveB
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JFS
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: Signals for Minories

Postby JFS » Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:41 pm

Terry, many thanks for the kind words.

Dave - very nice looking signal. What is the plan for getting the drive to the balance arms? Good idea about the finial - I don't have that luxury as mine are etched so I roll my sleeves up, then the finials draw blood if attacked! Just on spectacle colours, the "green" is always supposed to be blue - but you can see that is not the case in the example I posted - and have dozens of others - I am not sure M&H ever used blue but that is only hypothesis.

Just on the forked ends, in truth these are not very prototypical, but they are a very effective way of creating a strong and reliable joint with no slop.
They are much easier than they look - the clevis pin is soldered solidly into the crank (you can see in this example that I have put one in both holes incase I needed a shorter travel, and the fork itself is a single piece etching which folds around the drive wire. The method therefore is to put the clevis wire into one hole in the (still flat) forked end, then fold the other half of the forked end over the balance lever. The drive wire (0.2 - 0.3mm N/S or pb wire) is then soldered into the end of the fork - thus no soldering is needed anywhere near the actual clevis pin. So it is a simple job to build-up (say) a balance lever on its bracket, with both drive wires attached before any of it is soldered to the post / doll. Thus, all the working bits are done on the bench, not on the job. I am not saying it is easy, and you do have to be able to solder competantly but it is by no means the torture that people imagine.

The big caveat of course is that my layout has only 14 working signals and they are right under the punter's noses!! If it had more I would reserve the smart-@rs*d stuff for those near the beaseboard edge. But equally, no matter how many there are to do, it is important to have a method which enables you to keep the arms consistently horizontal (worn stops excepted...) and the forked ends do allow very fine adjustment.

Clevis.jpg


Just for those who wonder about precise soldering, it needs a very fine point on the iron tip. I periodically put mine in the lathe to re-create the point:-

T9 Tend 15.jpg


No doubt those without a lathe could improvise.

Best Wishes,
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davebradwell
Posts: 1174
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Re: Signals for Minories

Postby davebradwell » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:30 am

Re finials, I believe John Wright used pins as the central core in his M&H type to fight off any attack.

My signal in the photo goes at the back of the layout and seemed a good candidate for a first lattice attempt so operation is simplified. It will use Chris Pendlenton's technique of invisible mending thread round pins. Those closer or with longer brkts will have to be correct, of course, just as on his North Shields and I have wheels on a test etch - it should be rewarding watching the spokes move. I have produced a T shaped balance arm and getting it to move inside the X brkt was quite exciting. Could re-consider forks.

I might add that the arm is plastic so that a double thickness spectacle will return it to on and there's a definite stop somewhere. Arm has forked inner and clips onto turned bobbin which is press fitted to a lace pin spindle which, conveniently, has a slight taper. Spectacle also press fit. I've etched some U/Q arms but hadn't thought to include the rims around the spectacles - yours are very effective. They copy the stop arrgt of the prototype to maintain the consistent on position which I agree is fundamental.

Also meant to say I'm no general supporter of the trade who provided me with terrible kits when I was starting and it seems there's still plenty of old stuff out there. It's all our fault for storing rather than building as that's the only way problems emerge in time. I was forced to make my own stuff but it's all available rtr now and laziness would probably have taken me there. I suppose I could thank those purveyors of shoddy goods for raising my standards but won't.

DaveB

JFS
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: Signals for Minories

Postby JFS » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:53 am

davebradwell wrote: It will use Chris Pendlenton's technique of invisible mending thread round pins.

DaveB


Hello Dave,

I thought that would be the case - you NER chaps have an advantage in that the balance weights are not small and are at the bottom of the doll - "if in doubt, first try it the way the real thing did it" is a good moto in my view! I well remember the first time I saw Chris' layout and noting how well the signals worked.

I did originally hope to do the Starters that way (you can see the little pulleys in the photo) but the balance weights (plus arm) are just not heavy enough to keep the tension in the thread around the pulleys. I did however, as an experiment, build a straight post Distant, and that worked quite well with thread-power. I would add that under the baseboard, all of mine are thread-powered in traditional way.

I think we agree on trade offerings - the best are excellent - then there are others... Worst of all are those where, even at first glance you can see that the designer has never actually tried building it. And perhaps has never built any kit before ...

Like you, I had to go my own way for most of what I need. But then I really enjoy the design process.

Best Wishes,
Howard


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