NER bracket signal

DougN
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NER bracket signal

Postby DougN » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:43 am

Dear all I have just purchased a heap of signal grubbins from Wizard Models for NER split post signals. As SWMBO suggested she would like to see a double braket signal (ie one with 2 dolls) does any one know of any photos...I am looking for a medium and short doll on a base post with even off sets. I am not sure where they will find a home but if you build them... I guess it will come! they will be servo controled... I also have a level crossing on the way so Does any one know if the gates all closed simitainously or one at a time.. thinking of servo control again.
Last edited by grovenor-2685 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling of bracket in heading, sorry Doug but it was getting to me. Regards Keith
Doug
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grovenor-2685
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:05 am

Does any one know if the gates all closed simitainously or one at a time
The short answer is "Yes", ie it all depends on the geometry of the level crossing and the method of working, hence needs more detail.
But, in general a right angle 4 gate crossing worked from a gate wheel in an adjacent signal box would be simultaneous.
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Keith
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Keith
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DougN
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby DougN » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:28 am

Thanks Keith, I have ordered the NER gates from Wizard models so I will continue to look at the number of servos required... I think that 4 would do well but could be as low as 1! May need a more powerful servo though... then again these are only a few more dollars from Hobbyking. It will be very interesting exercise... one day it will all come together. I have found a nice bracket signal at Goathland which I can get a few photos of. this is the Down end heading towards Pickering. Split post with guy wires... I may go for this one next. I can't post any of the photos at the risk of infringing on copyright as I have no idea of who took the photos.
Doug
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Nigel Stevens

Re: NER braket signal

Postby Nigel Stevens » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:18 pm

Doug, Re level crossings & you were in Great Western territory invariably 4 gates would swing simultaineously as they were all driven from
one rod coming from a rack driven by a pinion on the winding wheel. A 2 gate crossing usually requires the gates to move one at a time & each to complete
its travel before the other starts to move. This is because their arcs of travel may cross each other and hence gates would collide if moved at same time. I am sure someone will know an exception but in most cases on the Western 4 gates = wheel & 2 gates = hand operated where the signalman has to leave his box & close by 'handraulic" as the late Fred Dibnah would say. Have to check with someone who knows signalling on the NER but I think principle applies 'up north'. Wheel operated gates are getting very scarce but there is a good example at Blue Anchor on the West Somerset Railway & hand operated at Williton, again on the WSR.

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Re: NER braket signal

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:13 pm

My observation so far is that Servos, while the mechanics can be very simple, ie just connect direct one directly to each gate shaft, are difficult to drive realistically at the speed required, the software has to drive them in steps to slow them down and it becomes very noticeable. A stepper motor will probably be a better bet as it can be geared down enough to make the steps invisible.
Plenty of motors and gears available from scrap scanners or printers.
Keith
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Keith
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DougN
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby DougN » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:41 am

Thanks Keith,

i will keep an eye out. It is well beyond my electronics capabilities at the moment but I do have thoughts on how things can be made to move now. the idea of a stepper motor may take more "brain time". I am keen to have a few things move on the layout and that is not just the trains!
Doug
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Russ Elliott
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby Russ Elliott » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:29 am

4-wire and 2-wire versions of asynchronous level crossing gate circuits with conventional motors and limit switches are here.

DougN
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby DougN » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:34 am

Thanks Russ. I will when the order turns up have to look more seriously.
Doug
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DougN
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby DougN » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:01 am

Well things have finally turned up from Wizard models Of course the monday following the exhibition I was going to build a signal at! Any how I haev started to build my braket signal and as usual work had got in the way :evil: So I have the braket and the landing soldered up and it really isn't that interesting to look at! One thing that I did end up finding is one very useful instruction sheet in the "arm" package. i have included it here as this I found really interesting and it makes things easier to understand and order.

IMG.pdf


I hope any one who is interested in doing these things finds this useful!
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Doug
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Horsetan
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:11 am

That one originated from D&S Models and was one of their better ones. By contrast, their sheet for the GW independent disc signal said almost nothing at all.....
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby DougN » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:22 am

Well horse, I thought it was worth while to put online... I did find it hard from this side of the earth to figure out what was needed and what I could use!

BTW hope all is well with you...
Doug
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Horsetan
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:22 am

OT I know, but it took a while to work out what all the individual bits on the independent disc etch were supposed to do. I managed to build one (the pack allows for a pair), though it was quite stiff in operation. Maybe I should have a go at the second one now.....if I could remember where I'd put the parts!!
That would be an ecumenical matter.

martin goodall
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby martin goodall » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:23 pm

Horsetan wrote:That one originated from D&S Models and was one of their better ones. By contrast, their sheet for the GW independent disc signal said almost nothing at all.....


I supplied Dan Pinnock with the original drawing from which the GWR ground disc kit was designed. The drawing, with some notes and photos, was published in MRJ No.12 (I think it was No.12). The drawing was later reprinted to a larger scale in 'Pannier' (the Great Western Study Group journal).

I have given another copy of my drawing to Andrew Hartshorn, in the hope that he would use it to include a better reproduction of the drawing with this kit, which he now markets, but I don't know whether this has been done.

Despite being the instigator of this ground disc kit being produced, I still haven't got around to assembling any of mine - a case of the cobber's children going worst shod, I suppose!

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Horsetan
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:01 pm

martin goodall wrote:
Horsetan wrote:That one originated from D&S Models and was one of their better ones. By contrast, their sheet for the GW independent disc signal said almost nothing at all.....


......Despite being the instigator of this ground disc kit being produced, I still haven't got around to assembling any of mine - a case of the cobber's children going worst shod, I suppose!


The drawing itself was fine, but a little more illustration as to how the etched parts went together wouldn't have gone amiss. Stephen Williams built one for his "Faringdon" layout, and also commented on the lack of proper instructions.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby DougN » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:20 pm

Just a note to all that I haven't forgotten about putting more on line about the signals. The signal is getting its hand rails as these look to be quite delicate to build up. I have left these for 2 weeks to mature at home while the Newton Clan Holiday away...we are in Hawaii! :thumb The only down side is no modelling....and have you ever tried to find a easter egg retailer in Hawaii.... just as well we brought them from home! Any way back soon and a few photos to show where I am up too. I think a bit like Mark T. signals can become addictive!
Doug
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Horsetan
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Re: NER braket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:21 am

Horsetan wrote:OT I know, but it took a while to work out what all the individual bits on the independent disc etch were supposed to do. I managed to build one (the pack allows for a pair), though it was quite stiff in operation. Maybe I should have a go at the second one now.....if I could remember where I'd put the parts!!


I have finally found the ground disc I built... :oops:
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That would be an ecumenical matter.

Bulwell Hall

Re: NER bracket signal

Postby Bulwell Hall » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:35 am

Horsetan wrote:
Horsetan wrote:OT I know, but it took a while to work out what all the individual bits on the independent disc etch were supposed to do. I managed to build one (the pack allows for a pair), though it was quite stiff in operation. Maybe I should have a go at the second one now.....if I could remember where I'd put the parts!!


I have finally found the ground disc I built... :oops:


That's insane!!

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Horsetan
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:29 pm

Bulwell Hall wrote:....That's insane!!


I do have a tendency to do insane things.

This is the first GW independent ground disc that I had built from the D&S etch. Although it works, after a fashion, it's not exactly the world's best as the moving parts are a little stiff. The tiny length of wire that I used as the operating rod between the disc and the lever does come under strain, and may be too thin for the purpose. If I get round to building the second one from the same etch, then I think I'll use a slightly different method of actuation.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby DougN » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:51 pm

It is very nice Horse. I am going to rebuild my bracket signal as I a not happy with the operating arm runs. I have unearthed some small etches of little arms to change the operations to a more proto typical fashion. Again it is another job for the coming break. I know where the bits are which is a good start. ( you could say I am a bit brain fried at the moment :? )
Doug
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Re: NER bracket signal

Postby Horsetan » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:44 pm

DougN wrote:It is very nice Horse. ...


Second one should be a little looser in the moving parts. I "painted" the first one using TippEx correction fluid for the disc face, and then red biro for the horizontal band. Lenses are Microscale Crystal Clear.

Simples.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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