The Station Building

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Dave K
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The Station Building

Postby Dave K » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:23 am

When Hallatrow was exhibited at the final of the 18.83 Challenge I did not have a station building, however Tim Venton of Clutton fame had previously made a model and has loaned to me ever since. So I thought it was about time I made a start on a model of my own.

The engineer for the Bristol & North Somerset Railway was William Clarke, who was the engineer to a number of local independent companies whose lines were to connect their local community to a main line. In a number of instances these companies were initially worked by the Great Western and were later taken over by them.

As a result his distinctive architectural style can be found around the Great Western system. The station building all followed the same basic design, only increasing in size with the importance of the station. An article in 'British Railway Journal' No. 8 on William Clarke's 'Standard' Buildings gives further details. This article and the Wild Swan book on the Abbotsbury Railway have copies of the original plan of Portesham station. A re-scaling of these plans and that of the GW official survey, plus photos confirmed that the station building at Hallatrow and Portesham were to the same basic design and size. Thus the Portesham plan was used as the basis for Hallatrow's station building.

A site visit in 2003 confirmed that the building still existed, although it has been altered when it was converted into a private dwelling.

radstock end of building (2).jpg
Radstock view of station building taken in 2003.
radstock end of building (2).jpg (102.83 KiB) Viewed 8285 times

After looking at the various types of plastic stone, Wills' Course Stone was a good match and Evergreen strip for the cornices etc. And so finally we have.

station building - components parts.jpg
The component part before assembly began.
station building - components parts.jpg (126.51 KiB) Viewed 8285 times

station building - platform side.jpg
The platform side.
station building - platform side.jpg (111.36 KiB) Viewed 8285 times

station building - rear view.jpg
The back of the building from the entrance road.
station building - rear view.jpg (111.54 KiB) Viewed 8285 times


Now that the basic structure is finished all that is left are the windows, doors, canopy, roof and chimney.
Last edited by Dave K on Sun May 11, 2014 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Hallatrow - a 18.83 Challenge Layout

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:05 pm

Dave,

I have always thought that the mortar course on the Wills sheets is too deep, although it may be a bit better for the GW style of building.

Being a buildign surveyor by profession, I do tend to look at really deep pointing and thinking - that needs to be mentioned as a defect in the survey. Even if it is 4mm to the foot!

I got around this problem by rubbing with my finger a slurry of plasto let down with liquid solvent into the groves. The main look out to my approach is that it can provoke the Will sheet to curl from teh solvent. So if you were tempted, practise first....................!!!
Mark Tatlow

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Dave K
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Re: Hallatrow - a 18.83 Challenge Layout

Postby Dave K » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:51 am

Mark Tatlow wrote:
I have always thought that the mortar course on the Wills sheets is too deep, although it may be a bit better for the GW style of building.


The problem is Mark apart from scribing the stone work from Das or something similar there's not much choice. When I started with the platform facing I used the Slater's rough stone but being formed from a flat sheet it does not have enough depth and if you were to cut through a stone you are left with a gap to the backing.

When comparing the Wills to the photos I took I felt it gave the bast representation also when looking at the building in 2003 we wondered if it been re-pointed.

Mark Tatlow wrote:
Being a buildign surveyor by profession, I do tend to look at really deep pointing and thinking - that needs to be mentioned as a defect in the survey. Even if it is 4mm to the foot!


But is it that noticable :?:

Mark Tatlow wrote:I got around this problem by rubbing with my finger a slurry of plasto let down with liquid solvent into the groves. The main look out to my approach is that it can provoke the Will sheet to curl from teh solvent. So if you were tempted, practise first....................!!!


Another way round it would be to use Milliput. When filling the gaps between the stone work and the cornices some of it got into the gaps which gave a shallower pointing.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Hallatrow - a 18.83 Challenge Layout

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:34 pm

dave k wrote:
When comparing the Wills to the photos I took I felt it gave the bast representation also when looking at the building in 2003 we wondered if it been re-pointed.



Oh I do agree; I would even go so far to say that Wills may have modelled their random stone on something like this.

It was just a thought as to whether the point which jumped out at me could be overcome. I have no problem if the conclusion is that it is my building surveying paranoia at work!!!
Mark Tatlow

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Tim V
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Re: Hallatrow - a 18.83 Challenge Layout

Postby Tim V » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:23 pm

I'm sure we could find some older close ups of the building!
Tim V

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Dave K
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The Station Building - part 2

Postby Dave K » Sun May 11, 2014 7:35 am

I thought add another photo of the station building, this time with the canopy in place. The valance was an Exactoscale etch purchased many years ago. This photo is taken from the side of the non-viewing/operating side of the layout.

IMG_0341 - 800px.jpg
IMG_0341 - 800px.jpg (184.51 KiB) Viewed 6317 times

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Tim V
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Re: A new Station Building - part 1

Postby Tim V » Sun May 11, 2014 8:37 am

A similar view from 1976.
Hallatrow early 1976 Lubitel 39-6.jpg
Hallatrow early 1976 Lubitel 39-6.jpg (124.15 KiB) Viewed 6297 times
Tim V

John Duffy
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Re: The Station Building - part 2

Postby John Duffy » Sun May 11, 2014 9:38 am

dave k wrote:I thought add another photo of the station building, this time with the canopy in place. The valance was an Exactoscale etch purchased many years ago. This photo is taken from the side of the non-viewing/operating side of the layout.


Interesting that the platform face of the station is the non-viewing side. I have done this on my latest project and it seems to rather goes against a modelling convention (perhaps why I was attracted to it). I wanted the yard to be nearer the viewing side but wondered if this would make the station building appear odd. I suppose though that for passengers arriving at a station they generally see the track face only from the platform, but get a wider view as they approach from the public highway. This latter view is probably what I'm trying to capture.

The etched canopy valance really does set off the building nicely.

John

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jim s-w
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Re: A new Station Building - part 1

Postby jim s-w » Sun May 11, 2014 9:45 am

It's a neat construction but I feel it's let down by materials. The wills stuff looks far too big to me, my first thought was that the stones are twice the size of the prototype. Tims picture kind of backs that up up with roughly twice the cornices on the prototype than the model.

Do wills do an n gauge version of their stone? I feel that would be much, much closer.

Cheers

Jim

DougN
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Re: The Station Building

Postby DougN » Mon May 12, 2014 2:23 am

It is the problem with the wills sheets in that they are a little too heavy generally. The random stone is a right royal pain in the wrist to cut adequately but the size of the stone would need incredibly large stone masons to move them into place. They seem to suit engineering walls better than buildings (they needed the overall size and also the access is easier) Just imagine moving the stones full size and you will feel what I am getting at! I am not sure if there is any good alternative in plastic. Personally I rather like Dave's model it captures the feel of the prototype. Also the size of the stone is not that noticeable unless the photo is right next to it.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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jayell
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Re: The Station Building

Postby jayell » Mon May 12, 2014 7:56 am

There is a similar design building at West Bay which has stonework looking much flatter than the Wills sheets, some pics here
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/br ... ex1a.shtml
which may be of interest

JL

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon May 12, 2014 7:59 am

Doug,

Wills sheet cuts very easily with a piercing saw and a no 2 blade or above. Don't be tempted with a finer blade than this, it will melt the plastic rather than cut it and thus jam the blade.

I am only so so on the stone being too big, there are plenty of stones that are the full height of the quion piece's in Tim's photo. Perhaps a tiny bit of work on the really big stones Dave to split them will just bring the effect in slightly?

On civils structures in particular, very big stones were routinely used. When you have lifting equipment it is cheaper, stronger and quicker to build thus.
Mark Tatlow

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Mon May 12, 2014 5:58 pm

I've been looking at Peco's 2mm random stone to represent Mendip limestone on the next project. Similar pattern, just not as pronounced.
Cheddar valley station quoins were 11 inch deep ashlar for what it's worth!

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Tim V
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Tim V » Mon May 12, 2014 7:52 pm

Good choice Andrew, I was put onto the Peco stuff by John Palmer, I've used it extensively on Clutton on the stonework.
Tim V

martin goodall
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Re: The Station Building

Postby martin goodall » Mon May 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Wills stone sheets can be rubbed down to give a less chunky look - an idea that was described in the Modeller some years ago. As supplied they are good for the sort of stone seen in North Cornwall, among other places, but can be made to look more subtle in texture with judicious sand-papering, to suit the stone in various other locations.

Cut it with a Stanley trimming knife for straight cuts, but use a piercing saw, as suggested, for cutting out windows and other internal cuts (starting from a drilled hole).

John Palmer
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Re: The Station Building

Postby John Palmer » Tue May 13, 2014 1:54 am

As Tim has mentioned the Peco 2mm sheet I hope he won't mind my reproducing one of his pictures of Burnham, showing the box on a platform faced with this material, and edged with individual bricks (individually picked out in varying shades, oh my!) I recommend this material.
Burnham_Platform.jpg

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Dave K
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Dave K » Tue May 13, 2014 10:13 am

johnlewis wrote:There is a similar design building at West Bay which has stonework looking much flatter than the Wills sheets, some pics here
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/br ... ex1a.shtml
which may be of interest


John,

Your correct, the consulting engineer to both the Bristol & North Somerset and the Bridport Rly was William Clarke. The article on the "Standard Buildings of William Clarke" in BRJ No.8 has a full list and photos of the stations constructed by William Clarke.

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Dave K
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Re: The Station Building - part 2

Postby Dave K » Tue May 13, 2014 10:40 am

John Duffy wrote:
dave k wrote:I thought add another photo of the station building, this time with the canopy in place. The valance was an Exactoscale etch purchased many years ago. This photo is taken from the side of the non-viewing/operating side of the layout.


Interesting that the platform face of the station is the non-viewing side. I have done this on my latest project and it seems to rather goes against a modelling convention (perhaps why I was attracted to it). I wanted the yard to be nearer the viewing side but wondered if this would make the station building appear odd. I suppose though that for passengers arriving at a station they generally see the track face only from the platform, but get a wider view as they approach from the public highway. This latter view is probably what I'm trying to capture.

The etched canopy valance really does set off the building nicely.


John,

The reason for the choice of viewing/operating sides is with the layout in my shed the operating side is also my viewing side, also Chris Challis ask if the layout were to be exhibited at Wells (being a Somerset based layout) could it operated from the front.

However when the layout was exhibited at the final of the 18.83 Challenge the layout had a viewing and operating side - see photos on the society web site at
http://www.scalefour.org/layouts/hallatrow.html

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Dave K
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Dave K » Tue May 13, 2014 10:59 am

To all who commented on the choose of Wills 4mm random stone for the building.

When I was building the model I thought that Wills 4mm was the best representation of the stone used.

Hallatrow Station Blg - end wall (3).jpg
Radstock end of station building - now a private dwelling.

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jim s-w
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Re: The Station Building

Postby jim s-w » Tue May 13, 2014 11:55 am

It's your model at the end of the day. I didn't know about the peco stuff either but if it were me, and I was where you are now Id redo it. Much like when I did my signal box it's a question of if you think you can live with it or not. If it will always niggle you (as my signal box was going to) then you are better to change it now.

Cheers

Jim

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Will L
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Will L » Tue May 13, 2014 2:44 pm

I think his point, Jim, is that the comments about the Wills stones being too large are not born out by the photo of the prototype. Therefore what need is there to change it?

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Tim V
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Tim V » Tue May 13, 2014 3:10 pm

John Palmer wrote:As Tim has mentioned the Peco 2mm sheet I hope he won't mind my reproducing one of his pictures of Burnham, showing the box on a platform faced with this material, and edged with individual bricks (individually picked out in varying shades, oh my!) I recommend this material.
Burnham_Platform.jpg

That photo was taken many years ago, not representative of more recent efforts! Shocking lack of depth of field - but there was no control over it at the time, a Kodak CX4230!
Tim V

Philip Hall
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Philip Hall » Tue May 13, 2014 3:15 pm

I think the Wills sheet, whilst a little heavy on the relief, is a good compromise. Clearly, looking at the picture of Burnham, the Peco stonework is far too small. I only hope when I have some buildings like this to make (and I will, given my intended location) I will be able to make as good a job of it as Dave!

Philip

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jim s-w
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Re: The Station Building

Postby jim s-w » Tue May 13, 2014 4:36 pm

Will L wrote:I think his point, Jim, is that the comments about the Wills stones being too large are not born out by the photo of the prototype. Therefore what need is there to change it?


Hi Will

Problem is, is that it's completely born out by the prototype picture!! Perhaps we could have a side by side comparison but I'm still of the opinion that the wills sheet would be, probably, OK for 7mm scale.

Cheers

Jim

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Tim V
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Re: The Station Building

Postby Tim V » Tue May 13, 2014 6:40 pm

I think once it's painted, some of that texture will disappear.

Show a picture of your goods shed, haven't you painted that already?
Tim V


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