Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:33 am

Hi Justin,

I need to do a little work on the container load for the LMS Open but I could throw some paint at the wagon beforehand. I won't get the chance before Wakefield but I'll see what I can do afterwards.

John.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby iak » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:39 am

Very tasty sir.
Wagon naughtiness of the highest quality :thumb
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Sun May 29, 2016 1:51 pm

It seems a while since I last put something out here but I haven't been idle. Those who have followed the "Containers in Highfits" thread elsewhere, will know that I have found myself in a situation whereby I had a Highfit without a load and a Container without a wagon! I have rectified the first situation but won't deal with the latter until I finish my current project.

So, first off, a couple of pictures of the two containers that I now find myself with.

20160527_142431.jpg


20160527_142447.jpg


Here is the Highfit that the BD container will go into as a load. The wagon is an LMS D.1892 and has a Rumney conversion kit fitted to give steel channel re-inforced ends and a Rumney chassis. The sides are modified Parkside ones from the BR/LMS Open.

20160517_123435.jpg


Lastly, a shot of the wagon with its new load.

20160527_142527.jpg


That's it for now. More when the latest project is completed.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby iak » Sun May 29, 2016 2:35 pm

Wibblingly good sir
I assume it has a Newitt chassis as well
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Andy W » Sun May 29, 2016 3:57 pm

Marvellous weathering on well built wagons and containers. What else could be asked for?
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Lord Colnago
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Mon May 30, 2016 8:17 am

iak wrote:Wibblingly good sir
I assume it has a Newitt chassis as well


Hi Ian,
The chassis is indeed a Rumney. An LMS Clasp Brake to be precise.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Mon May 30, 2016 11:47 am

I thought I'd take the opportunity to look silly whilst, hopefully, at the same time prevent others from doing the same thing. However, if you should be as silly as me this will show you how to dig yourself out of a hole!

Have you ever slipped an etch onto a shaft, soldered the shaft in place and then realised that the etch you so thoughtlessy slipped on to it is the wrong way around? Well, I have, and more than once!

This set of photos might not be as clear as I would like but I hope they convey enough of what I'm going on about to make all clear. This first one shows the offending etch, which links, in this case, the brake shaft and the vacuum cylinder. The hook shape at the end is eventually wrapped around the cylinder shaft and the "hook" pushes downwards.

20160528_160207.jpg


I have found out from past experience that trying to unsolder the shaft isn't a bad way of making a pig's ear of whatever it runs through. So, the first thing to do is to make a cut in the shaft as shown below. I used Xuron cutters for this.

20160528_160312.jpg


Now you can just spring the shaft enough to be able to get the etch off, turn it around and slip it back on again. Check that you have got it the right way around. Don't ask!

20160528_160457.jpg


Next, solder the shaft at the cut. Use plenty of solder, relatively speaking, to get a nice strong joint. Then its simply a matter of tidying things up with a file and you won't know that there was ever a problem in the first place. Like so.

20160528_161026.jpg


I haven't made one of my neater jobs on this but you get the idea and once painted, no one will ever know. Whilst this is principally aimed at the beginner, I managed to make the error and sadly I'm no beginner, so it can happen to anybody. Remember, there's always a way.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby jjnewitt » Mon May 30, 2016 8:02 pm

Been there, got that particular tshirt! I still have to check which way up they go every time I build a vacuum braked chassis...

Nice to see you're making good progress with the Plate John.

Justin

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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue May 31, 2016 8:20 am

jjnewitt wrote:
Nice to see you're making good progress with the Plate John.

Justin


Thanks Justin. The chassis is done now. My eyes are still recovering from fitting those rope cleats! I've made a start on the body. Only eight more rope cleats to fit on that! I may need a darkened room after that.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:51 pm

A wagon in a day?

Whilst demonstrating at the 101 not out event, I was asked by a visitor how long it takes to build one of my wagons with a Rumney Models chassis like the one I was showing him at the time. That's something that I had never really thought about but I said that I was sure that I could build one in a day. When I got home, I thought a little more about this and thought that I should back up what I had said. As the days and weeks passed, it became clear that if I waited for the day to come along whereby I would be able to sit down and spend the day modelling, I would be waiting a long time. Dogs to walk and and an on demand taxi service, free to its principal user, all conspire to take chunks of my day, every day. So, the answer seemed to me to be to just build the wagon as normal and record the time it took, add that up and see how long the "day" would be.

Here then, is what I did, session by session, some of which were quite short, others relatively long. It is worth remembering that there are easier ways to do some of the things I do. I used my usual methods because that's what I'm used to, but they may not necessarily be the quickest.

I started with the body construction. The hardest part of this involved removing the headstocks from the ends together with the remnants of the lamp irons as these won't be required when using a Rumney chassis. The rest was a straightforward box construction and I inserted a 30thou floor. Time taken: 20 mins.

Next came the basic chassis. I cut out the chassis top plate and cleaned it up. The headstocks were then folded up. The W-Iron assembly was also removed from the fret and cleaned up. Both were then soldered together using 1mm. wire pins for alignment. The solebars were then removed, cleaned up and folded to shape. The same was done to the overlays, which were soldered to the main etches and the various details sweated in place. The completed assembly was then soldered to the basic chassis. Finally, in this session, I made up and attached the spring stops to the underside of the solebars. Time taken: 2 hours.

I struck lucky at the Society AGM when Justin Newitt gave me a re-designed Morton brake fret to try out and feedback on. This has been designed to use a layered approach, aligned on wire pins, like his LMS re-inforced steel wagon ends and fish van body. Its a neat method which makes the whole brake gear assembly much easier to fit into the chassis after construction. I was feeling my way a little bit when constructing the first side but made up the second side very much quicker, so next time I would imagine that I could build both sides in half the time taken to build these. Time taken: 1 hour 45 mins.

Justin had also given me a test etch for some buffer spinging units to try out so these were folded up and soldered in place. Etched coupling hooks were soldered up, filed to shape and soldered in place in the chassis. There is the facility to add vacuum pipes included on the buffer springing etches and I opened up the holes in these to suit my method of representing these connections. Time taken: 45 mins.

Next, I assembled the spring carriers adding the spring wire and bearings. I made up the axle guards and tie rods, which in this instance are one piece etches. The brake shoe assemblies were soldered in at this point and the safety loops added. then the chassis corner plates were soldered in place and cleaned up . Not one of my favourite jobs as, for some reason, I always get into a mess when doing them. This time was no exception. Finally in this session, I made up and fitted the brake lever guards to both sides. Time taken: 2 hours 20 mins.

Next came the axlebox and spring castings, which on this wagon were seperate castings. Unfortunately, the axleboxes are supplied with heavy duty re-inforcing plates integral with the castings, so these had to be filed off. As fine a way as I am aware of to harden up the ends of your fingers. Once this has been done, the slots in the rear to allow the bearings to move were milled out. The spring castings were tidied up and modified to my preferred finish. Time taken: 1 hour.

The springs and axleboxes were attached, using rapid epoxy. Whilst this was going off, I assembled the Exactoscale buffer heads and tails together. The rear of the buffer castings were drilled out 1mm. as the system used doesn't rely on coil springs and opening up the rear allows easier alignment for the buffer tails in the springing etch. I next soldered the two-layered instanter links together, made up the rest of the coupling and fitted them to the chassis. The vacuum cylinder was drilled out for the actuator rod, which was fitted using 0.6mm. wire. Lastly, the two lamp irons were folded up and soldered to either end. Time taken: 1 hour.

A fun job next. The etches that represent the brackets that secure the body to the chassis were folded up and soldered in place, using the body as a guide. I had to file the backs of the body stanchions a little to allow the body to sit properly on the chassis and I also had to make slight adjustments to the bracket positions. A job that I thought would have disastrous potential but which actually turned out quite well. Time taken: 55 mins.

For the final session I fitted the brake levers, vacuum cylinder and buffers. All fairly straightforward stuff. Time taken: 40 mins.

Now, I make the total time taken to be 10 hours 45 minutes. A long day certainly, but I think I was justified in my statement to the visitor at the 101 event. I wish you well if you fancy such a long day in the modelling chair but, at least the above proves that you will have a finished model at the end of it. I would also imagine, that many of you would be able to cut the above time considerably if you follow a simpler ethos, which is another way of saying that you're not as daft as me! Photos to follow in due course.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:19 pm

You might think that there hasn't been much goings on of late in the Wagonarium, but I have been busy and here's a few pictures of what I've been up to. I thought it was about time that I changed the background to my photos, so I printed off a photo of some Norfolk scenery and used it as a backdrop. Better than bare ply, but I really should do something about that as well!

First up, is my "wagon in a day", a BR Insulated Meat Van. It probably took longer to paint than to build, given that I had to strip the paint twice, but that's life.It has a Parkside body on a Rumney chassis.

20160730_130536.jpg


Next up are two Plate wagons. The first is a Rumney kit for the all welded, clasp braked BR job. Diagram 1/434, I believe. The second is also a BR one, but this time with riveted ends, which were hours of fun to add and which you can't see, and LNER AVB. It has a modified Parkside body and underframe. I used Bill Bedford W-Irons and modified a fret of LNER AVB brake gear, which, I think, was from Masokits and an ABS cast brake cylinder.

20160730_131544.jpg


20160730_131727.jpg


You will recall that I found myself in a situation whereby I had a wagon without a container and a container without a wagon. The former situation was rectified a little while back and I have finally managed to rectify the latter, as you can see below. Apologies for not getting it sitting properly on the track. The container is a Parkside Insulated one and the Conflat A body is from the same stable. The chassis comes, once again, from Rumney.

20160730_131329.jpg


I'm not sure if I have shown you this next one before, if so, my apologies. It is a Conflat L with three cement containers and is built from a Bill Bedford kit. Conflats generally are difficult to weight so I tend to put the weight in the container. After all, containers are like vans, insofar as an empty one looks much the same as a full one. I did manage to get some lead between the chassis members on the Conflat itself but it wasn't quite enough. So I drilled the centre out of the centre container on this wagon and filled it with liquid lead, secured with 5 minute epoxy. A messy job. This brought the weight up to the required 2 ounces but, if it hadn't, I could have easily put more in the containers on either side, using the same method. As long as the lead is evenly distributed between them, there shouldn't be a problem.

20160730_130905.jpg


Lastly, here are the two Private Owners that I built for the second wagon tutorial. I was "forced" to build the second one as I accidently deleted the photos of the latter part of the construction of the first one and had nothing to illustrate my words. One way of getting another wagon built, I suppose.

20160730_130647.jpg


Both of these wagons have Craig Welsh sub chassis and Parkside bodies. The difference being that one is a 7 plank RCH wagon and the other an 8 plank RCH one. Here's a picture of each one.

20160730_130712.jpg


20160730_130738.jpg


That's everything up to date for now. I have made a start on the third, more advanced, wagon tutorial so look out for that. After that, I need to crack on with my WD. After all, something needs to pull all these wagons around.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby iak » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:20 pm

Very nice too John.
How does Justin's plate kit fare going together.?
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Lord Colnago
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:13 pm

Hi Ian,

The chassis is relatively easy. If you can build one of his 10' clasp brake chassis, this one shouldn't trouble you, its just a bit longer!

The body has its fun moments, but that's what we do it for. I had problems folding the basic body shape up and would recommend running a knife blade along the fold lines whilst its all in the flat. Once I did that all was well. Weathering covers a multitude of sins!

John.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby iak » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:58 am

Sláinte :thumb
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:09 pm

Its about time I returned to the subject of "working" vacuum pipes. I note that in November 2014, I was puzzling over the right length for these and, sad to say, I puzzle still. Much experimentation has taken place and I now have several wagons fitted with the magnetic type on which, none of the pipes are the same length! Buffer and coupling length would seem to be factors and as these vary, I do wonder whether there isn't actually one single optimum length. The venerable JSW offers a length of 15mm. in his writings but I have found this to be too long, with the magnets joining up at an angle as opposed to face on. Given that Jim's modelling period for New Street covers a time when longer, modern buffers were used, I can see why 15mm. suits his stock. Anyway, I will continue the experimentation and update when I resolve the issue. Any comments in the meantime will, as always, be gratefully received.

I do have a general query which the railwaymen amongst us might be able to resolve. I assume that it must have happened but, were hanging and upright vacuum pipes ever connected to each other? I can't find photographic evidence, but, as I said, it must have happened, mustn't it?

Speaking of upright vacuum pipes brings me to the subject of this posting. A long way back, I said that I was looking at ways of utilising these for both my "fixed rake" method and the magnetic type and that I would come back when I had sussed it. I believe that I now have the answer, along with a refinement of the system, which I will cover in due course. Whilst I have found a method that works for the "fixed rake" system, I have to admit that I am tending more and more towards the magnetic system and may well abandon the former in favour of the latter, with the benefits of a little more versatility in stock usage that results. Enough waffle, let's get on to the pipes themselves.

You will need some 1mm. brass rod, a length of 1.5mm. OD, 1mm. ID brass tube, a piece of 5thou steel sheet, a length of 1mm. elastic thread and a 1mm. diameter magnet, the length of which escapes me but looks very like 0.5mm.

First of all, take the 1mm. brass rod and file a v-shaped notch into it, like so.

20160905_203703.jpg


Now, elongated one side of the notch, again using a file, like so.

20160905_203751.jpg


Now fold the rod back on itself and strengthen the joint with a little solder. At this point, cut the bent portion back a little so that when the tube is soldered in place, the pipe looks correct. The finished result should look something like this.

20160905_204438.jpg


Now is the time to attach a short piece of the afore-mentioned tube to the rod, using a little solder once again to secure it. A length of elastic thread can then be epoxied into the free end of the tube. The next photo shows the bits before any action and the one after shows it all finished and tidied up a bit.

20160905_204551.jpg


20160905_204835.jpg


Now for the refinement. It has bothered me for some time, that the vacuum pipe hanging loose was distinctly unprototypical, so some way had to be found to "secure" the free end of the pipe on the last fitted vehicle in the train.

I always keep the wagon chassis frets when I've finished with them as most contain a lot of useful bits and bobs that can be used as spares and the like. On the Rumney Models frets, there are spare vacuum pipes brackets, intended for the purpose of securing the pipes ends on the prototype in order to maintain the vacuum. I have plenty of these as I didn't need them on my "fixed rake" wagons. There are two parts which look like this.

20160905_205438.jpg


Once soldered together, you get something like this.

20160905_205840.jpg


On LNER wagons, and on some others, the upright vacuum pipes are cranked to avoid the coupling hook, whilst at the same time, keeping the pipe, more or less, central to the wagon. Use a good photograph and put this slight bend into the 1mm. rod. Now the pipe securing bracket can be soldered to the pipe, again using a photograph to position it. I file away some of the lower part of the bracket to give it a more rounded shape, but don't go too far or it might just fall off. The finished article should look like this.

20160905_211939.jpg


I have jumped ahead a little with the last photo as it shows the finished shape of the pipe, but it shows this little pipe bracket to best advantage. As for shaping the pipe, I used a photo to determine how high up the wagon the top of the pipe was and bent the rod so that it passed underneath the wagon end as per the prototype. I then drilled a securing whole in the wagon floor and again, bent the rod at the appropriate point, so that it was a push fit into this hole. The important thing to remember when doing this is that the bend underneath the wagon end needs to be parallel to the vacuum pipe itself. This photo should give you the idea.

20160905_211025.jpg


This one shows you the underside of the wagon with the securing hole drilled out. It doesn't get more gripping than this!

20160905_212035.jpg


Or does it? Now is as good a time as any to attach the magnet to the pipe end with a little superglue. Once that is done we come to the good bit. I made a punch from a short bit of steel rod. The end is turned down to 1mm. and, after placing the 5thou steel sheet (remember that) on a piece of lead sheet, is used to punch out a disc from the steel sheet. The disc is then epoxied onto the pipe bracket so that it presents a steel face to the magnet. The components are shown here.

20160905_211511.jpg


I'm sure that you will have worked out by now where this is going. The end of the vacuum pipe can now be attached to the securing bracket and gives the correct prototypical impression, or as near as I can get to it. I haven't, as yet, painted the units or secured the units to the wagon shown, as I intend to bring them along to my Scaleforum demo and you can get a better idea of what's involved if they're unpainted. The one thing that painting does do, which is useful for our purposes, is that it "softens" the grip of the magnets without impairing the performance we need. To finish off, here are a couple of pictures of the pipes showing how they look in situ.

20160905_212238.jpg


20160907_203005.jpg


Until next time...
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Noel
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Noel » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:49 pm

Lord Colnago wrote:I do have a general query which the railwaymen amongst us might be able to resolve. I assume that it must have happened but, were hanging and upright vacuum pipes ever connected to each other? I can't find photographic evidence, but, as I said, it must have happened, mustn't it?


I'm not a former railwayman, but have seen photographic evidence. Yes, it happened. The connection was at roughly the same level as the couplings, and I have also come across a reference to the increased risk of damage to the vacuum connection that this apparently represented.
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Noel

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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby iak » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:52 pm

An eloquent, informative post John.
Very nice and tasty :thumb
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby David Knight » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:13 pm

Thank you John. That looks like a very "doable" solution to an old problem. :thumb :thumb Now to find the time to do it.....

Cheers,

David

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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:55 pm

Hi Noel,

I couldn't really believe that the two types were never connected, although I'm sure it must have been a fun job doing so. I'm fascinated by your comment on damage to the vacuum system and would love to know more.

iak wrote:An eloquent, informative post John.
Very nice and tasty :thumb


Thanks Ian. Don't think I've ever been called eloquent before!

David Knight wrote:Thank you John. That looks like a very "doable" solution to an old problem. :thumb :thumb Now to find the time to do it.....

Cheers,

David


Glad it was useful David. Finding the time for things seems to be a common problem.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Noel » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:07 pm

Lord Colnago wrote:I couldn't really believe that the two types were never connected, although I'm sure it must have been a fun job doing so. I'm fascinated by your comment on damage to the vacuum system and would love to know more


The reference is from an article on the hazards of shunting, in Trains Annual 1966. The author was G. Richard Parkes, whose name I have seen once or twice on other Ian Allan material. The quote is from a paragraph about the guard making up his train in a marshalling yard "Some of the hose will be coupled underneath if they are on the buffer beam, others above the couplers if they are on standpipes; when one hose is on the buffer beam and the other on the standpipe they will couple just about level with the links, which can be a source of damage to the hose when the train is in motion." Presumably the issue is wear resulting from prolonged contact with the couplings, but I have no further details, I'm afraid.

Incidentally, the problem arises with coaching stock too. Corridor coaches have vacuum hoses on the buffer beams, but, for example, SR 4-wheel passenger vans have standpipes.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby dal-t » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:51 am

Bearing in mind when two wagons are coupled there's always one coupling hanging 'spare', I wonder how much damage came from rubbing on the 'working' coupling and how much from being clouted by the loose one swinging around? And was there a preference as to which links should be used in such circumstances? My guess would be using the coupling from the bufferbeam-piped wagon would lessen the 'clouting' risk without increasing the tendency to rub, but can anyone with working experience confirm or deny?
David L-T

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:25 pm

A bit of a turn up for the books for me. Its the day after Scaleforum and I'm modelling already. An unheard of situation. It usually takes me a week to sort myself out!

I thought I would update on a couple of issues raised on my demo. Firstly, the shiny roof situation has been rectified. If you picked up on it, this will make sense. In the end I found 10 wagons needing an encounter with the matt varnish but they're all done now. Secondly, a few people asked me about the faded weathering on some of my wagons and I couldn't remember the name of the range of weathering colours that I had used. They are Com Art colours, Real Deal Weathering kit. The label on the box refers to the Iwata web site, www.iwata-media.com which seems to me as good a place as any to start looking for them. The kit contains 10 colours in all and are excellent for layering colour via the airbrush. They are also meant to be suitable for brushing although I haven't tried that with them yet.

Thanks for your interest over the weekend. I hope it was useful to you. It was certainly fun.

John.
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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Paul Hutfield » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:02 pm

Excellent stuff John, great to hear that the modelling mojo is still high after a busy weekend demoing and very impressed to hear you've already had the matt varnish out!

Thank you for your continued efforts both here on the forum and at the demo tables, it's really useful and encouraging to view your progress and i'm very tempted to follow your lead and give the working vac pipes ago myself!

Best Wishes

Paul

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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby PeteT » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:57 pm

Gah! I missed your updates this month prior to the weekend John, and having seen you in Wells I prioritised my free time over the weekend (little of it that there was) elsewhere. I wish I'd made the time to specifically see you now, as those pipes do look the part. I had seen JSWs versions before, but without them returning to sit on the bracket they didnt look right when uncoupled - whereas from the photos you look to have nailed this!

Thanks for spending the time going through the steps to create the look you have - very much appreciated. I must get some wagonry nearer the workbench and have a play.

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Re: Goings on at the Norfolk Wagonarium

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:45 pm

Thanks for the kind comments chaps. Its gratifying to know that members are finding this all useful. Makes it worthwhile.

My current spell of productivity continues. Those upright vac pipes are now painted and glued in place, so that's another wagon done and dusted. An ex-LMS van has had its "lost" Archers rivets replaced and I've managed to build most of a fret of Masokits LNER AVB for a Cattle Van that I'm working on. Some of you will have seen the wagons on my demo which had loose weights inside them. They have been secured now, so the next stop for them is the paint shop. I don't have a lot of Vallejo grey primer left, although I probably have enough to see me through until the new order arrives. I'm sure the dogs know that I'm on a roll at present as they seem to be walking quicker these last two days! Fine chaps they are too.

I'll keep you posted on developments but life is going to get in the way over the next couple of days and then I have a 40th Anniversary of my own to celebrate, so don't hold your breath.

John.
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