Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

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Will L
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Will L » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:02 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:Mind you, I see this topic is mentioned on page 43 of the latest Scalefour News. Last time I got a mention from Mr Litchfield, it was about the layout in general (Neversay version one). This turned out to be the kiss of death for that particular project. Will the curse strike again, I wonder? ;)


Not yet I hope. If you want to avoid the problem be more boring in futur.

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:43 pm

Will L wrote:
Armchair Modeller wrote:Mind you, I see this topic is mentioned on page 43 of the latest Scalefour News. Last time I got a mention from Mr Litchfield, it was about the layout in general (Neversay version one). This turned out to be the kiss of death for that particular project. Will the curse strike again, I wonder? ;)


Not yet I hope. If you want to avoid the problem be more boring in futur.


"The Curse of Litchfield" could easily become one of the truly great stories of Scalefour modelling - an exciting and frightening story to pad out some future landmark edition of 'Scalefour News'.

I don't think I will switch to boring just yet. ;)

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:18 pm

Onwards and upwards! Not one railbus but two.

Looking at using a High Level Pacemaker to power my Ford railbus was not a great success. I couldn't get quite enough weight in the right places to haul a trailer, as we found out a few weeks back. Seeing the success Geraint had with his slightly larger railbus a few posts ago, I decided to try the Pacemaker in a larger vehicle. Over the past week or so, I have been investigating all sorts of possibilities - even more so as I am temporarily stalled on the Ford railbuses, waiting for extra components. I happened to have a couple of Peco Model Scene Maudslay bus kits for no good reason. I wondered what I could do with them - and one thing led to another..... :? !

Bus conversions were not uncommon. Ireland had a few, but they were also used in other parts of the world. This is the most outlandish I could find, from Mexico...

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The Great Northern Railway of Ireland built a number. They adapted the bodies by adding a rear entrance with steps. This is one example.

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The peculiar arrangement allowed passengers to get on and off at normal platforms as well as at ground level. For my tramway, there would only be a need to access the passenger compartment from ground level. This meant I could have the steps pointing sideways, rather than to the rear. I also decided I could shorted the body slightly so that the roof covered the rear platform. That way, passengers could shelter under the roof whilst keeping an eye on pigs, camels or other goods in any trailer towed behind the railbus. Like my other projects, this has to be believable, but is only loosely based on real vehicles. Like many small concerns, my tramway would have improvised and made its own adaptations to what was available locally and to suit local conditions, rather than copy what Colonel Stephens or any other great and powerful railway magnate did.

I began by hollowing out the rear of the roof. This had a thicker central core to stick the sides to. This proved easier than I expected. I used a razor saw, just removing a small section at a time. Here is the job part way through

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and completed, after I smoothed everything off a bit. The edges look rougher than they were in reality!

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Next I modified the back end of the body sides. On the offside, this just meant removing one small window. On the nearside, the door is at the rear, so things were more complicated. Firstly, I removed most of the door area. Here is a kind of before and after shot.

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I then cut a window section off the forward part of the nearside of the second kit,

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trimmed it to size and stuck it in place on the railcar side in place of the door (RHS in the photo).

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Next, I assembled the Pacemaker power unit, using an old Tenshodo motor rather than the Mashima 1020 provided - that can be used for better things!

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This runs very sweetly. It has the 36:1 gear option. At this stage I wasn't sure whether to make my own chassis or try and use the plastic chassis provided in the Maudslay kit. I decided in any case to try the kit chassis first, if only to give me an idea of what I would need to do for a scratchbuilt version. Here is the chassis trimmed slightly to get the Pacemaker and motor to fit.

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I put the far side of the body in the picture to give a rough idea of how the motor and gearbox fit inside the body. In fact, the chassis and body are sitting a bit low - the motor and gearbox should be slightly lower in the body than the photo suggests. In any event, seats and passengers should hide the worst of the bits we shouldn't really see.

Having got this far, I have decided to scratchbuild my own chassis to fit the Pacemaker into, as the plastic one is a bit flimsy - a problem I suspected right from the beginning, of course.

I will leave that for next time.

Although I have trimmed a bit off the rear of the body, there is still plenty of room for some decent weight behind the rear wheels. This should make a big difference to the performance of the new chassis over the Ford railcar mock-up I tested before Christmas.

As for the second kit, I plan to make a road version with front and rear entrances - hence my selection of a forward window as a donor for the railcar.

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Craig Warton
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Craig Warton » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:11 am

That looks very promising indeed, but how could you not give in to temptation and model that Mexican example?

Absolutely superb.

It really is great to see someone going down the path of the obscure and odd.

Regards,

Craig W

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Flymo748
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:33 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:
Will L wrote:
Armchair Modeller wrote:Mind you, I see this topic is mentioned on page 43 of the latest Scalefour News. Last time I got a mention from Mr Litchfield, it was about the layout in general (Neversay version one). This turned out to be the kiss of death for that particular project. Will the curse strike again, I wonder? ;)


Not yet I hope. If you want to avoid the problem be more boring in futur.


"The Curse of Litchfield" could easily become one of the truly great stories of Scalefour modelling - an exciting and frightening story to pad out some future landmark edition of 'Scalefour News'.

I don't think I will switch to boring just yet. ;)


I see my exploits also merit a mention (although for what I'm unsure...) and an opportunity for Will to trot out his Buckjumper. It's serving its purpose though, and prompting me to write some more on my Another Round thread ;-)

I'm completely with you on being boring. There's plenty of time for that, and for pedantry and outright miserablism, when you're dead!

Cheers
Flymo
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Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:31 pm

Craig Warton wrote:That looks very promising indeed, but how could you not give in to temptation and model that Mexican example?

Absolutely superb.

It really is great to see someone going down the path of the obscure and odd.

Regards,

Craig W


Thanks Craig! It does take a bit of courage and confidence (recklessness?) to take on such a challenge, when the overwhelming view (external mainly) seems to be that P4 is just about obsessive accuracy and rivet counting. ;)

To me, the odd and the extraordinary are what makes railways so fascinating and so worth modelling. Modelling the normal and the ordinary is a bit too much of a straitjacket for me. In many ways P4 is the best way to do this. The correct wheel and track standards allow all sorts of things that would be difficult in less prototypical gauges. The single-blade turnouts and the 3-way turnout I am building, for example, would be near-impossible with anything less than prototypical flange gaps. This logic also applies to stock. If you have to scratchbuild so much, then it makes sense to me to do it as close to scale as possible - even if the stock itself is fictitious. It takes no more effort, in general and leads to more satisfying results.

The main problem with a fictitious model is the almost infinite range of possibilities. At least with a Highland Railway branch terminus (for example) you don't have to exercise much self-control. ;)

Flymo748 wrote:
I'm completely with you on being boring. There's plenty of time for that, and for pedantry and outright miserablism, when you're dead!

Cheers
Flymo


Maybe I need to look out for assassins at the next scaleforum? :shock:

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Noel
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Noel » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:19 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:Maybe I need to look out for assassins at the next scaleforum?


No, no, we don't do things like that. A visit from the men in white coats, however...
Regards
Noel

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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:28 pm

I received some interesting 1:10 miniature gearboxes from Poland on Saturday. Two of these will probably be used in the Ford Railbus powertrain.

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The shaft diameter is 1mm, perfect for the Exactoscale 2ft 8in wheels I am using for this model. I will use further gears at the motor end of the geartrain to increase the reduction to a more appropriate ratio. Here is a link to the gearbox site http://shop.kkpmo.com/product_info.php? ... -10-1.html.

These gearboxes come without bearings for the shafts, but it should be straightforward to install some as part of the chassis. I was thinking about using these gearboxes for my Ruston shunter too, but will probably end up using Tenshodo gears instead.

The railcar assembly will use two of these gearboxes, one on each driving axle. I am not sure how best to link the two together, as there will need to be a small amount of give between them. A rubber tube might be the best bet, if I can find some of a small enough diameter. A dog clutch arrangement would also work, but I can't yet find anything small enough available.

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RobM
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby RobM » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:13 am

Armchair Modeller wrote: A rubber tube might be the best bet, if I can find some of a small enough diameter.

Heat shrink?
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:31 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:I am not sure how best to link the two together,


One solution would be a simple universal joint. It may be that something designed for tender drive locos can be used, with a suitable bush to reduce the size of the holes to 1mm.

Terry Bendall

billbedford
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby billbedford » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:10 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:These gearboxes come without bearings for the shafts, but it should be straightforward to install some as part of the chassis.


The bodies to these gearboxes are cast nylon so they don't need separate bearings.
Bill Bedford
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Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:43 pm

billbedford wrote:
Armchair Modeller wrote:These gearboxes come without bearings for the shafts, but it should be straightforward to install some as part of the chassis.


The bodies to these gearboxes are cast nylon so they don't need separate bearings.


OK, but the shafts are not positively located like normal gearboxes - they can rock quite a bit. My railcars could flop over to one side or other if I didn't have bearings on the axles to hold them in a specific alignment. Similarly, the drive shaft will have to be held in a fixed position to allow the gears from the motor to mesh properly.

I have found some 1mm ID rubber on eBay, so I will buy some to see if it will be suitable for joining the drive shafts of the two gearboxes together. Otherwise, I have found some universal joints in a Kato N gauge chassis that might suit.

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Russ Elliott » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:27 am

Armchair Modeller wrote:OK, but the shafts are not positively located like normal gearboxes - they can rock quite a bit. My railcars could flop over to one side or other if I didn't have bearings on the axles to hold them in a specific alignment. Similarly, the drive shaft will have to be held in a fixed position to allow the gears from the motor to mesh properly.

I assume you would have been holding the axle(s) in outer (or inner) bearings, so the slop in the gearbox output shaft would seem not to be a significant issue. I can't see the need to constrain the gearbox input shaft however, but I'm not sure yet how you envisage the connection from the transmission source and the 'joining of the two drive shafts'.

Those Kato 1mm UJs sound interesting - any pics?

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:25 pm

Hi Russ,

Here's a photo. You only get one per chassis - currently just over £20 each on eBay. That's the Kato bogie chassis by the way, not the 4-wheel one.

aDSCF4914.jpg


The worm gear and housing are detachable. I just left mine on as I may still use them in the original chassis for 2mm Finescale purposes, if not required for P4.

I am still procrastinating about the final details of the transmission etc. More news in due course.

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat May 20, 2017 3:30 pm

Hopefully, a few more progress reports on railcars are coming soon. In the meantime, I have got my act together for a source of 2ft 6in wheels. Ultrascale sell 10mm wheels for the conversion of the Model Rail/Dapol Sentinel to P4 standards. These have 2mm diameter stub-axles. But how to use them for other projects?

The idea I came up with is to use 2mm ID brass tube and 2mm OD perspex rod. Here are the components, cut to size.

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I assembled the components using Loctite 603, as recommended by no less than Will L. I then carefully cut an insulation gap in the middle of the brass tube with the combination of a piercing saw and a thin file. I was worried because the perspex is a bit flexible. Putting an extra bit of Loctite around the insulation gap produced a rigid axle though. Could be beginner's luck again, but my first attempt seems to run true.

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10mm wheels could be so, so useful for me - along with lots of other sizes, of course. I can use split-frame construction with these, which should simplify current collection. I should eventually be using some for another Sentinel...

...a bit like this one.

Sentinel-Type-Y-Railcar.jpg


...or at least that is the plan.

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:21 pm

For those wondering what is happening to the railbuses, the Tramway's management has ordered a temporary rationalisation of projects, whilst I prepare for a big examination in a few months time.

The Maudslay railbus stalled (literally) as it had too little weight The featherweight plastic body left little room for hidden ballast. Good news is that I recently acquired a very old Eames kit of the very same vehicle with some heavy cast metal components. The plan now is to combine the best bits of the two kits to make a heavier vehicle, in due course. The Ford railbuses are also stalled as I ponder where best to put the motor. I will put both to one side whilst I think them through more thoroughly.

Meanwhile, in between track building, cassette construction and loco re-wheeling, I can't quite get this little idea out of my mind... :?

Sentinel-Type-Y-Railcar.jpg


I already have Sharman wheels for the power car, Ultrascale wheels for the trailer bogies and two Nucast Sentinel Railcar kits. It would have loads of weight, plenty of room for a motor - and it would look so, so nice on my tramway :D
Last edited by Armchair Modeller on Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:44 pm

Image

I was just a bit puzzled why you had included both 'url' and 'img' tags to bring up your picture.
So above just to check that the 'url' tags are redundant. Which they are, a bit surprising that it actually worked.

Regards

Armchair Modeller
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Re: Going For Bussed - Neversay Railbuses and Railcars

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:05 pm

I just copied the link provided by the hosting site to see if it worked - not relevant really on this site, but will be on several others I frequent where they don't allow images to be stored. Now I know it works, I will upload an image direct to this site for the previous post.

Sorry if I got u perplexed :cry:


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