Grampus stock naughtiness...

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iak
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Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:16 pm

And so to the humble BR Grampus. The Parkside Dundas kit and other parts will form the basis of the build, together with the body moulding which Dapol produce. The build will include both fitted [Diag.1/574] and unfitted [Diag.1/572] types. The question of springing this batch of wagons will be addressed in one way or other. The wheelbase of the Grampus means that springing this stock is essential, the 12-foot wheelbase leaves one with no choice!

Image

LMS buffers on an auld Parkside buffer beam start the process with the Dapol mould - which is actually pretty accurate dimensionally.

Image

The majority of the door springs on the mould are far too heavy so, off they come. However, the ones on the body side itself can the thinned and look pretty ok :thumb

Now to the Parkside kit...

Image

Dispose of the buffer bases, leaving the mounting blocks.

Image

LMS buffers get put in; check photographs to use the right ones!!!

Image

The floor and an end attached; the modifications for the springing units are not too clear but hey...
More to come soon fellow wagon bashers... :ugeek:
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


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PeteT
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby PeteT » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:19 am

I'll follow this eith interest - my long term plans for Embsay mean an ectual need for fleets of ballast wagons. Grampii were relatively rare but did make it & will add variety. From where you are so far, which body Dapol/Parkside would you recommend? I havent started looking yet but assume the body was identical between fitted & unfitted, with the buffers &running gear changing...

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Noel
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Noel » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:28 pm

PeteT wrote:I havent started looking yet but assume the body was identical between fitted & unfitted, with the buffers &running gear changing...


More or less... Early wagons [probably only the first lot, mainly allocated to Scotland] had fabricated steel removable sections at each end above the drop door, with five intermediate vertical stiffeners, looking rather like the sides of later steel Lowfits, Some of the later versions [of steel channel with wood infill] had the wood insert in two horizontally divided sections rather than one, and there were two patterns [at least] of the wood inserts, which differed in the length of the wood, and hence the position of the hand holds. Over time these removable sections sometimes got switched between wagons, producing odd combinations. They could also be put back the wrong way round...

The wood spacing blocks for the buffers only appear on VB wagons, and the different types of buffers used affected the size of the blocks fitted to the drop ends to enable them to rest on the buffer housings. Some vehicles had inverted "L"-shaped steel supports either side of the buffers. Some drop end doors had additional "L" angle bracing [as shown on the Parkside ends in the photos, some did not].

Back to photographs...

Noel

Edited to clarify two points.
Last edited by Noel on Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Noel

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Colin Parks
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Colin Parks » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:53 pm

Hi Iak,

Just a little addition to the differences between unfitted and fitted Grampus (which I found out too late for the ones I built): the small round protrusions on the body panels are representations of cleats which are only to be found on the fitted wagons (unless anyone knows better...)

Enjoying the pictorial progress and it will be interesting to see how the suspension system works.

All the best,

Colin

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:35 pm

Thanks Colin, I am already onto this little morsel.
Mind, I intend replacing the molded ones with..... :mrgreen:
Now that "would" be telling...... :ugeek:
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:42 pm

Noel wrote:
PeteT wrote:I havent started looking yet but assume the body was identical between fitted & unfitted, with the buffers &running gear changing...


More or less... Early wagons [probably only the first lot, mainly allocated to Scotland] had fabricated steel removable sections at each end above the drop door, with five intermediate vertical stiffeners, looking rather like the sides of later steel Lowfits, Some of the later versions [of steel channel with wood infill] had the wood insert in two horizontally divided sections rather than one, and there were two patterns [at least] of the wood inserts, which differed in the length of the wood, and hence the position of the hand holds. Over time these removable sections sometimes got switched between wagons, producing odd combinations. They could also be put back the wrong way round...

The wood spacing blocks for the buffers only appear on VB wagons, and the different types of buffers used affected the size of the blocks fitted to the drop ends to enable them to rest on the buffer housings. Some vehicles had inverted "L"-shaped steel supports either side of the buffers. Some drop end doors had additional "L" angle bracing [as shown on the Parkside ends in the photos, some did not].

Back to photographs...

Noel

Edited to clarify two points.



Thanks for the post Noel.
The crib sheets I have are a maze and lets just say Mr Bartlett has had a
lot of piccies purchased - if you ken my meaning? :thumb

Oh the joys of our hobby.......................
Wibble :!:
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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Colin Parks
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:10 am

Hi Iak,

Looking forward to seeing your take on the cleats. By the way, what are you going to do about the removable end panel baskets? Are there any etched after market ones available that you know of? If not, perhaps someone should produce an etch.

All the best,

Colin

waveydavey
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby waveydavey » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:41 am

Many people have said they may do an etch but no one ever has.

One of my mates in the Define modelling group has measured up a basket and is working on learning how to draw them up suitable for etching so I guess it's just a matter of time.

Cheers

David
Modelling Clackmannanshire Railways in 1975
http://waveydaveysmodelmuddle.wordpress.com/

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:03 am

waveydavey wrote:Many people have said they may do an etch but no one ever has.

One of my mates in the Define modelling group has measured up a basket and is working on learning how to draw them up suitable for etching so I guess it's just a matter of time.

Cheers

David



Well I'll have 25 to start with....... :D 8-) :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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Colin Parks
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:38 am

Re the Grampus baskets, I could do with twenty, so let's hope someone goes ahead and does produce an etch.

Colin

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:24 pm

After a prolonged gestation, some further developments on the Grampus front.

42586757_10216546698355884_4936564581716721664_o.jpg


The Dapol body is on Bill Bedford W-irons, all the details are from the Rumney Models etch.
The brakes are essentially Ambis etches, the spring/axlebox castings are, again, from Rumney Models and the Buffers hail frae the LMS range.
This beastie is nearly finished finally.. :D :D :D
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:48 pm

Some further progress with the initial Grampus wagon.
Long in gestation but finishing with gusto...

2018-10-03-19-55-45.jpg
The etched nickel-silver underframe baskets.

2018-10-03-19-53-03.jpg
A close up of the etched step and the end of the wagon.

2018-10-03-19-47-48.jpg
Another side view showing the lifting link.


The final fettling will then lead to the paintshop - wibble.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:22 pm

lovely :thumb
Tim Lee

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Bernie
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Bernie » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:18 pm

Crikey, that's worked out pukka! Well done!

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Colin Parks
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby Colin Parks » Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:34 pm

The 'initial' Grampus looks great Ian! Just how many more are there to come?

All the best,

Colin

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:11 am

I have another unfitted Dapol bodied/Bedford sprung one in the throes of getting done - it has ride height issues presently...
However, another four Parkside ones are in preparation to be built as fitted ones, again with Bedford springing.
The intention also, is to do some more unfitted Grampus using a Dapol/Rumney hybrid eventually but that will be next year probably...
WIBBLE!
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

DaveHarris
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby DaveHarris » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:21 pm

I have just 'discovered' this thread, which I have read with great interest.

Iak your work is excellent.

As I am a bit of a 'Departmental Nerd' I thought I would provide a little background on this type of wagon for others to see that even 'boring black engineers wagons ' do have their differences.

The humble Grampus build program started in 1951, continued for an 11 year period and had a total build quantity of some 4,781 wagons, divided into two diagrams _ 1/572 and 1/574 - unfitted and fitted respectively.

The 3,840 dia 1/572 wagons were built in 22 lots over the years 1951 to 1957, the size of the lots varying from 50 to 387, and the builders ranging over Shildon, Butterley, Cambrian, Derbyshire, Gloucester for the unfitted versions and the 941 dia 1/574 wagons built by Pressed Steel, Ashford and Shildon for the fitted versions.

When modelling these wagons it is very much a case of obtaining a photograph of your intended wagon, as there were so many variations within the build program, and also how the wagons ended up looking while in service.

Variations I have noted are:

Wheels - most 3 hole disc, but some noted with 10 spoke wheels.

Buffers - Types used were: RCH Standard, Self Contained, Dowty-Hydraulic and Oleo-Pneumatic.

Axle Boxes - Either RCH 2 piece, Hybox, or RCH 1 piece.

Ends - With the 2 top removable end planks you have the following choices:

1. Fit the ends on the wagon as manufactured.

2. Cut the end so that only one plank is in the end.

3. Cut off both the end planks completely.

- again either a photograph or your favoured wagon, .... or modellers licence applies.

Livery

When introduced the wagons were black with straw colored lettering, but this was changed to white at an unknown time.
During the short lived period of painting Departmental vehicles Red, some received this livery, but again, if you wish to model a wagon in this livery a photo is a must.
In the late 60s on wards the livery was changed, gradually, to Olive Green (and the shade of green could vary!) with white lettering, and this change was not wholesale , but as wagons went through a wagon repair shop and the repair was deemed to be large enough to require a full repaint. So changes were random and spread over a number of years, some wagons retaining their original livery to the end of their days, with only black patches applied for number/use lettering changes over the years.

Not sure wether this helps or muddies the modelling waters!?

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:52 am

A grand post sir and very useful...
Mr Bartlett has copious images of these humble beasties, some in very scuzzy condition.
Many thanks mind, my fastidious nature is tampered with mucho artistic fancy - seems to work. :D :D :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:15 pm

It appears that they are breeding:

2018-10-10-18-22-17.jpg


Some fitted Grampii are now in a running status. It seems that the muse was kind yesterday :thumb
Bill Bedford sprung w-ironsw-irons, some careful solebar spacing and use of a Brassmasters wheelbase jig appears to have resulted in two beasties that want to fly. The buffers are LMS models ones as usual. :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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iak
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Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:04 pm

More progress as the paintshop/pre-weathering work is done. Scabby, tatty and with hints of rust showing, this Grampus is now ready for lettering and finishing. Once more, the muse is being giving and generous this week.

2018-10-17-17-11-48-1.jpg


I hope this beastie will join the Spoil Rake ready for the Wakefield show in November. Mostyn is out on its travels once more and will be featuring a lot of new items of stock, together with some other subtle changes and additions... :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/

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iak
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:28 am

Re: Grampus stock naughtiness...

Postby iak » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:33 pm

The finished article... :o

2018-10-24-22-47-43.jpg


Only another two or three unfitted ones to do and as for the fitted variety?
WIBBLE :?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp


https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/


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