Queensbridge Road Wharf

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Paul Willis
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Paul Willis » Tue May 01, 2018 6:51 pm

garethashenden wrote:
Noel wrote: Indeed; some idiosyncratic and interesting buildings, of significantly different vintages and styles. I presume that the small warehouses back onto the river?

The real small warehouses back onto Tower Bridge Road. They're not very interesting on that side, but the Horsleydown Lane side is more picturesque. On the layout there is an off scene road behind the backscene that these are on. I don't think they have any direct access to the goods yard.


I was going to a meeting in that vicinity this morning, so on the basis of your post I took a slight diversion...

IMG_1997.JPG


Lovely day for taking pictures!

Cheers
Flymo
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed May 02, 2018 9:15 am

Yes lovely buildings to model. The cranes all seem to be the simple type. We often had them on distilleries up here. I have a model of one on Dubbieside which was based on one which was at Cameron Bridge Distillery. - It was steam operated and had cylinders etc. attached to the outside wall. Unfortunately I never witnessed it in action.

Clearly the buildings are going to make a superb frame to the operation. It is good to add a few simpler buildings to the set up as it will give a change of tempo to the scene and keep it from looking over busy. You should have a lot of pleasure creating this scene, particularly if you enjoy making buildings. Looking forward to seeing this at a show sometime. Nice to see the North London being used as a starting point as well - a much neglected but interesting railway.

Allan :)

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Thu May 23, 2019 5:52 pm

As so often happens with my modelling, I was going along on a project and suddenly felt the overwhelming urge to do something different. I realised that Queensbridge was never going to be finished if I didn't actually work on it. So I went and had a look to see if I could find a suitable project. I decided to start on the fiddleyard end with one of the two buildings. In the back corner will be a pub. I have some ideas, but this is the only structure I don't yet have a prototype for. So the obvious solution was to start work on the other building at that end. This is a small brick warehouse based on a building in Limehouse. Last summer I started work on one of the other buildings using a plywood core with Slaters brick sheet attached to it. This may work for some people, but I didn't find it successful. Windows are always where I seem to have trouble. So for this new building I decided on an all-styrene approach. Previously I have had difficulties fitting etched windows to brick sheet. The problem is always the arch. I love the look of arched brick windows, but they're problematic to make. I've finally settled on a solution that will work, make the windows to fit out of styrene strip. It's not done, but so far it's working.
Image

So to actually build the structure, I started with a rectangle of brick sheet cut to the correct size. When I photographed the building I used the measure app on my iPhone to estimate the height of the building. From that I made the width to fit the space and the proportions looked good. I marked out the approximate locations of the openings on the sheet, then set about making arches. I figured it would be easier to make the openings fit the arches than the other way around. I took a strip of brick sheet, two full bricks wide, and cut two thirds of the way through between each brick. This made the strip curve and allowed me to further curve it to fit the desired shape. I looked around for a small round object to use as a guide, so they would all be consistent, and settled on the cap for my bottle of flux. I cut the arches to 16 bricks long, curved them, and glued them to 0.010" sheet. Once cured I cut out the arches and trimmed the backing sheet. I left extra material above the arch for attachment, but the other three sides match the arch.
Image
Using the arches to guide the width and a photo to guide the height, I cut out 11 windows and 1 doorway. I also cut out a section in the middle for the three freight doors. There were inevitably gaps around the arches, and these have been filled in with putty. I then used 0.030" strip to block around the window openings, and then attached a sheet of 0.040" styrene to the back of the wall. Once the windows had been opened out again, the wall was mostly done. The two side walls are of similar construction, brick sheet on plain styrene. The windows are the next step, and that will be a separate story.
Image

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri May 24, 2019 9:53 pm

Do what you can when you can has always been a motto of mine- there will always be something to do, this building is coming on well and I love the colouration in the original as well as the design, Very nice.

I have built a few warehouses in my time and one or two of these cranes, including a steam operated one, which is a bit rarer.

Getting something done will always spur on the work, no matter what you are doing.

Allan :)

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat May 25, 2019 8:43 am

The red brick mixed into the stock brick suggests a drastic repair. Was it wartime damage?

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Noel
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Noel » Sat May 25, 2019 11:40 am

Guy Rixon wrote:The red brick mixed into the stock brick suggests a drastic repair. Was it wartime damage?


I would suggest not. Wartime damage usually burnt out the buildings and left the walls unstable; the outcome was usually demolition not repair. The style of the building is consistent from top to bottom, suggesting that it is all original. Also, you can't really repair the middle of a structural brick wall without replacing the top. Looking at the image it looks as though the red colour covers yellow brick in at least some areas, suggesting to me that it was applied externally at some point in the life of the building.

Since writing the above I've established that it is a Grade II listed building https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101241331-148-and-150-narrow-street-e14-limehouse-ward#.XOkoTfZFxhF, again suggesting that it's original.
Regards
Noel

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Sat May 25, 2019 12:52 pm

Since the mortar is only visible in the stock brick sections, I think it’s some sort of paint used in the red areas. If they were actual red brick I would expect to see grey mortar lines there as well, but they’re red. I wonder when and why it was painted.

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:58 pm

All the wiring is done, aside from the lighting. I had been waiting on the setts until I was sure the wiring didn't need any changes but I have now begun with this project. It's slow going and I'm not trying to rush, no point in needing to redo it. I've been spreading thin layers of Das clay. The large open areas have thin foam sheet that brings the level up to about that of the sleepers. I've spread clay in between the sleepers, once that's dry I've applied another layer up to just below the rail head into which I press the setts with a modified paintbrush.
Image
Image

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:26 pm

The first warehouse is just about done. Need to finish the roof and a couple of details, that’s it. The windows were all 3D printed.

Image

One of the challenging areas recently was curving the bricks into the doorway openings. I did this by creating a short bit of wall entering the building, rounding over the corner with a file, and then chasing each mortar course with a square needle file. It was rather tedious but the results were worth it.

1) Raw opening:
Image

2) With the new wall:
Image

3) Rounded over:
Image

4) All bricked up:
Image

In position on the layout. The road is next.
Image

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Noel
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Noel » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:11 pm

The small door would have had a visible lock; even if there was nothing particularly valuable inside, theft and arson would be known risks which insurers would want addressed. The double doors can be assumed to be secured inside, the small door being the final exit door. Also, the small door would have a means to deliver post - the prototype door has a letter box towards the top of the right upper panel. It appears to be a 1940s/50s one, which is smaller than modern ones, at about 8ins wide.
Regards
Noel

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:54 pm

Noel wrote:The small door would have had a visible lock; even if there was nothing particularly valuable inside, theft and arson would be known risks which insurers would want addressed. The double doors can be assumed to be secured inside, the small door being the final exit door. Also, the small door would have a means to deliver post - the prototype door has a letter box towards the top of the right upper panel. It appears to be a 1940s/50s one, which is smaller than modern ones, at about 8ins wide.


Thanks Noel, I’ll look into this and add those details to the door.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm

Good to see the building progressing, haven't made any new buildings for my new layout for some time, but this inspires me to have a go at the works building, not quite so characterful as yours, but quite a sizeable affair - there will not be any photographs for a while as I progress other aspects of the Wemyss layout. Your layout and buildings would be interesting to light up for night scenes, I was wondering if you were considering this?

Allan :)

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:25 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:Good to see the building progressing, haven't made any new buildings for my new layout for some time, but this inspires me to have a go at the works building, not quite so characterful as yours, but quite a sizeable affair - there will not be any photographs for a while as I progress other aspects of the Wemyss layout. Your layout and buildings would be interesting to light up for night scenes, I was wondering if you were considering this?

Allan :)


I had actually been considering some layout based lighting. I suppose now is the time to add lights to this building, something on a bracket I suppose. There is also a building right in the front that will probably need an interior, it has lots of large windows and it will be very obvious if it’s empty inside. I’m not sure what lighting the yard itself would have, any ideas? Presumably gas lit, but just a light on a pole? More things to research...

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:34 pm

I've now replaced the window with the broken mullion. In addition to that, all the other details have been taken care of an initial painting has been done. I used a whitemetal crane from Scalelink. In person its a little chunkier than the prototype but I still like how it looks. I added two platforms for the upper storey doors. I think that one of them should have been modelled up, but they're quite firmly glued now. Good think I've got several other similar buildings still to make. The downpipe is 1/16" brass tube with a curve put in at the end. It fits the look I was after.

Image

I've also been working on the road in front of the warehouse. Getting the pavement at the right height relative to the building and the roadway at the right height to clear the trains at the back was more challenging than it should have been. In the end the building had to be raised about 1/2" off the baseboard. But the overall effect is correct and that's what matters. I had been procrastinating on the road because I didn't want to press all those setts, but then it occured to me that I could use Wills sheet for most of it and only make clay setts at the corner. I think I will employ this technique in the yard as well. If a sheet can be used whole, I'll use it. If I have to trim it then I'll use clay instead. That should speed things up without compromising the appearance.

Image
Image
Image
Image

While its too new for the layout the Bentley was the only vehicle I had to hand. Its an Oxford Diecast model and rather heavy handed. The WO Bentley Memorial Foundation are in the process of sending me some factory drawings so that I can make better models, but that's the subject for a future thread.

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Paul Willis
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Paul Willis » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:20 pm

garethashenden wrote:Image

While its too new for the layout the Bentley was the only vehicle I had to hand. Its an Oxford Diecast model and rather heavy handed. The WO Bentley Memorial Foundation are in the process of sending me some factory drawings so that I can make better models, but that's the subject for a future thread.


Or get down to Goodwood next year, and take as many detailed photos as you like of the real thing...

Goodwood MM77 Apr 19 (152).JPG


Cracking racing, as well. The great advantage is just wandering around the paddock, chatting and looking at what interests you. I didn't take any detail photos of the Bentleys that were there, but there probably more brass and copper in the engine bay of this Bugatti than there is on one of Will's Buckjumpers.

Goodwood MM77 Apr 19 (68).JPG


A good friend of my wife does membership at the Bentley Drivers Club, so if you draw a blank I could ask if they have an archive of material on the early cars. My cousin has one as well, but as a 1934 saloon, it's rather too late for your needs.

Cheers
Paul
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:26 pm

Paul Willis wrote:A good friend of my wife does membership at the Bentley Drivers Club, so if you draw a blank I could ask if they have an archive of material on the early cars. My cousin has one as well, but as a 1934 saloon, it's rather too late for your needs.

Cheers
Paul


Helen? This is a small world isn't it. The BDC's archives are technically held by a separate organization but its in the same building. I have been collecting pictures and books for years, so at this point I think a few good dimensions should be all I need to get going.
I have a concept in my head for a late '30s Southern layout, in some idilic country scene. There's a garage in the village and the proprietor is a bit of an amateur racer. He's got a 3 Litre that has been raced hard for a long time but is now falling behind the competition. He's also got a big 6.5 Litre that was bought cheaply with a worn out body. So he removed the body, fitted a crane, and now uses it as a recovery vehicle. May sound implausible, actually happened quite a bit. The garage scene is far more likely to be built than the rest of the layout.

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Paul Willis
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Paul Willis » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:29 pm

garethashenden wrote:
Paul Willis wrote:A good friend of my wife does membership at the Bentley Drivers Club, so if you draw a blank I could ask if they have an archive of material on the early cars. My cousin has one as well, but as a 1934 saloon, it's rather too late for your needs.

Cheers
Paul


Helen? This is a small world isn't it.


Yes - that's right. She landed her dream job as a petrolhead, and loves it. We got to know each other when Anne and Helen were both racing sidecars in the British club championship. Anne went on to do the TT and Helen into the European Championship, IIRC.

2015-06-10_209.jpg


garethashenden wrote:The BDC's archives are technically held by a separate organization but its in the same building. I have been collecting pictures and books for years, so at this point I think a few good dimensions should be all I need to get going.
I have a concept in my head for a late '30s Southern layout, in some idilic country scene. There's a garage in the village and the proprietor is a bit of an amateur racer. He's got a 3 Litre that has been raced hard for a long time but is now falling behind the competition. He's also got a big 6.5 Litre that was bought cheaply with a worn out body. So he removed the body, fitted a crane, and now uses it as a recovery vehicle. May sound implausible, actually happened quite a bit. The garage scene is far more likely to be built than the rest of the layout.


Sounds wonderful! Cars of that era were infinitely customisable and rebuildable. When I used to see my cousin more frequently, he was forever regaling me with tales of how he'd just had to re-metal the big-end bearing on his Bentley. I don't think he was ever greatly involved in the Bentley scene though, tying his colours to the VSCC mast instead.

Cheers
Paul
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bécasse
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby bécasse » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:55 pm

garethashenden wrote:I had been procrastinating on the road because I didn't want to press all those setts, but then it occured to me that I could use Wills sheet for most of it and only make clay setts at the corner. I think I will employ this technique in the yard as well. If a sheet can be used whole, I'll use it. If I have to trim it then I'll use clay instead. That should speed things up without compromising the appearance.


The Wills granite setts are excellent but, like quite a few of the sheets in the so-called OO scale range, are far better suited to 7mm scale than 4mm. The setts are simply too large and would be far too heavy to be manageable. Slater's 4mm roof tiles are really a tad too regular for granite setts but look much better, particularly if given a bit of a camber, than the Wills sheets (and they make surprisingly realistic slated roofs too - but are wrong for roofing tiles).

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:34 pm

Reinspired, I have returned to this layout. As previously seen I had started the building on the left hand end. Unfortunately I haven't worked out the ideal solution to the road/backscene interface and that had been mentally preventing me from working on the buildings in that area. So I have moved to the other end. I purchased two kits from JS Models, and had them custom made in brick rather than the usual stone. One is perfect for what I had envisioned, and the other will do. They both fit the scene and are very quick to assemble. With those assembled I started work on the building in the corner. This is a railway owned warehouse with an arch under it to allow access to the yard from the street behind. Next to it will be a London Hydraulic Company accumulator tower, helping to avoid all the roofs being the same height and giving me an opportunity to dive into the history of this fascinating company.

Image
Image

I have long planned on having a narrowboat at the front of the layout, but I recently discovered that some Thames sailing barges were narrow enough to be used on Regent's Canal, so I'm going to have one of those instead. I bought a very inexpensive vacuum formed kit for one, advertised as "OO 1/72 Scale". It fits the width available perfectly, although it will take a lot of work to make a good model out of it. Does necessitate needing to look through something to see the trains, in this case masts and rigging, which is an element I enjoy in layout design. The masts will almsot certainly require a return to some sort of automatic coupling, AJs most likely, since I won't want to put my arm through there to undo the 3 links...

Image

Terry Bendall
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:30 am

garethashenden wrote:Next to it will be a London Hydraulic Company accumulator tower, helping to avoid all the roofs being the same height and giving me an opportunity to dive into the history of this fascinating company.


The web site of the Greater London Industrial Archaeology Society is a good starting point for information about the London Hydraulic Power Company and there are links to other sources. The former pumping station at Wapping still exists as a restaurant and there are pictures of the building to be found on the web

Terry Bendall

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Noel
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Noel » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:55 am

garethashenden wrote:It fits the width available perfectly, although it will take a lot of work to make a good model out of it.


Probably a significant understatement, I would think. It appears to be a full hull moulding, so presumably will have to be cut down to make it a waterline model, assuming that is your intention? [She might well lie on the mud in the tidal river, but not in a canal basin unless the canal had a major problem.] I assume it's the Sarik offering, which I presume you know is a full size Thames barge, and therefore too big to get up the Regents Canal? Perhaps a change of location to somewhere on the river close to Poplar Dock?

On the visual front, once fitted with masts, sails and rigging it is probably going to dominate the layout in a way a narrow boat would not, especially if it is high out of the water, and probably overwhelm much of the background modelling. Although automatic couplings will solve some problems, access to derailments, etc. may be somewhat problematic [Yes, I know they shouldn't happen, but...] and make it vulnerable to damage.
Regards
Noel

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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:29 pm

Yes it is the Sarik kit. I bought it because it was pretty cheap and I wanted to see how it would look. The crease in the hull is supposed to be the top of the hull, and cutting off the bottom so it sits on the water will help reduce its bulk, but it is too big, particularly too wide. I'm having a great deal of difficulty finding anything on the smaller barges, they're 14' wide, but that's all I know. Were they scaled down or just narrow? If anyone knows, or knows where I can find out, that would be helpful.

The outer barge in this photo is the look I'm after I think, small and low in the water. Photo from the NRM
Image

It is possible that moving the layout closer to Poplar or on a branch to the River Lea would be a better solution. The real goal is industrial London at the turn of the (last) century. I'm more after a feeling than a real location.

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby zebedeesknees » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:24 pm

Barge, Butty, Narrowboat... Terminological minefield!

Ted.
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby TonyH » Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:09 pm

IMG_1479.JPG
I built one of those barges , they make a nice model. There is a book, Powderbarge WD ISBN 0-9500515-4-3 which has a drrawing of Lady of the Lea,72'x13'. This barge used to deliver explosives from the Royal Gunpowder Factory at Waltham Cross.

Regards Tony
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bécasse
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby bécasse » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:40 pm

Thames barges, which were essentially sailing vessels, didn't work up the Regents Canal (although they did work up at least the lower reaches of the River Lea), it was dumb Thames lighters which existed in a special narrow beam (~13'-9" IIRC) version to enable them to be towed up the Regents Canal as far as the Interchange Dock at Camden Town where their cargoes (which had in turn been transhipped from sea-going vessels in the various London Docks) were transhipped into narrow boats to continue their journeys on Britain's canal network - transhipments into road lorries and railway wagons also took place at Camden Town. The locks on the southern section of the Grand Union Canal were widened between the wars with the intention of allowing lighters to work through to the Midlands but long before the work was completed it was discovered that towed lighters (normally towed in pairs, abreast on the Thames, in line on the canal) couldn't safely pass each other on the canal and the scheme was abandoned part-complete. The widened locks weren't totally wasted as they did enable pairs of narrow boats to lock through together significantly speeding the locking process. The two vessels partly seen to the right of your photo (one with a tarpaulin marked "252") are lighters, they had sizeable rudders but were dumb, ie unpowered, and had to be towed. The man responsible for crewing each pair of lighters was called, unsurprisingly, a lighterman, a job that was considered one of the most skilled on the water.

From the point of view of your model, a crucial difference between the Regents Canal and the River Lea is that the latter was tidal resulting in a significant difference in the method of construction of wharfage which on the Lea had to be able to cope with differences in water-level which could be as much as ten feet or so.


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