Queensbridge Road Wharf

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garethashenden
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Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:41 pm

As described in my Canonbury Good thread (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4889) I have become dissatisfied with the operating potential of the layout and have made the decision to start again. While casting about for inspiration I came across Hepton Wharf in Iain Rice's new book on Cameo Layouts. This immediately struck me as an excellent trackplan that could easily be restaged in grimy North London. Hemmed in on three sides with warehouses and factories and Regent's Canal at the front it offered the scenic elements I was looking for as well as more interesting operation. The trackplan allows for a train to arrive at the back of the layout, run around, do the shunting, and then leave in the direction it had come from. It was this ability to have a complete train, as opposed to a few wagons, that really appealed to me.
I'm not going to get too specific about the exact location, but the concept I'm working with is that the NLR built a short branch bellow street level to reach a basin on Regent's Canal. The canal and the railway are very close together in Camden, but this is probably somewhere a bit east of that, maybe even east of the Great Northern's mainline.
I've drawn up a sketch of how I envisage things looking. The windows in the warehouse are wrong, there are too many and they're too small. Road access to the goods yard and canal basin is via a tunnel under the right hand side of the warehouse, although that may get rethought and or the warehouse split into two smaller buildings. There is a road on the right hiding the fiddleyard entrance. On the other side of the road are two buildings, they may get joined by a high level walkway, I've always liked those. The right side end will have another large brick building hiding the back right corner of track and the possible future fiddle yard entrance there.
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I have Templotted the layout and laid it over the existing layout. I was able to test the concept further by using a 0-5-0 to do some shunting. A train arrives, collects outgoing wagons and leaves the incoming ones.
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The location of the canal basin can be seen in cross hatched pencil in this picture
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One other thing. On Canonbury Goods I tried both steel rail and 3 link couplings. I didn't really get on with either, so this will see a return of nickel silver rail and Alex Jackson couplings.
Last edited by garethashenden on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Will L
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Will L » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:32 pm

garethashenden wrote: I was able to test the concept further by using a 0-5-0 to do some shunting.
Given my own mistyping record I probably shouldn't mention this, but that's something you don't see every day!

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:38 pm

Will L wrote:
garethashenden wrote: I was able to test the concept further by using a 0-5-0 to do some shunting.
Given my own mistyping record I probably shouldn't mention this, but that's something you don't see every day!


That was actually deliberate although the term may be more common in the States. An 0-5-0 is a hand. I'm not sure if there's a strict difference between that and the "hand of God", but it's a similar idea.

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:32 pm

The baseboard has been rebuilt with a cutout for the canal. The track by the canal will be inlaid in setts, I quite like the look, but I've learned my lesson and won't be using chairs. I've ordered some copperclad sleepers from Wizard models, they should be here soon. The other 2/3rds of the layout will be chaired. Unfortunately, C&L have sold out of the 4 hole chairs I need, although I have managed to salvage most of the ones from Canonbury Goods. I've ordered new sleepers, rail, and rivets from Stores, so once everything gets here I'll be able to make a start.

Image
Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:45 am

I have decided to fill the space to the left of the canal with a small factory/workshop. I found some excellent 1952 pictures of Camden Locks on Britain from Above. These show that one of the buildings that now makes up Camden Market used to house a company that made wooden packing cases. This resulted in large piles of lumber on the quayside. I've decided to use that as inspiration for this section of the layout; smallish two storey building and piles of wood all around.

I knocked up a quick building frame today to check the size and feel. So far I like it and think it adds a lot to the scene.

Image
Last edited by garethashenden on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jim s-w
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby jim s-w » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:46 am

Hi Gareth

Just a suggestion but are you scrapping the other layout? If not why not mirror this one and join them together? Could have a little fiddleyard in the middle. The layouts could still be different places though.

Cheers

Jim

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:46 pm

jim s-w wrote:Hi Gareth

Just a suggestion but are you scrapping the other layout? If not why not mirror this one and join them together? Could have a little fiddleyard in the middle. The layouts could still be different places though.

Cheers

Jim


That's a good thought. Unfortunately, I've already pulled up all the track and modified the baseboard for the new plan.

Highpeak
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Highpeak » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:58 pm

If I had known you needed PCB sleepers I could have mailed you some, I have a fair few that are surplus to requirements.

I like the building as a view blocker, and as you said it does add to the scene.
Neville
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Ian Everett
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Ian Everett » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:41 pm

It's good to see another SGW layout leaving the starting blocks. This really is Hepton Wharf come home - in Iain's planning books there is a multitude of London-based layouts, usually involving some water, although not, as far as I can recall, Regent's canal, usually mud-flats and river wharfs.

Incidentally, you are wise to use PCB sleepers for the roadway tracks. I did that with Humber Dock and it was much easier than chaired track would have been.

If I wasn't so committed to ex-LNWR in the Pennines and the NER in Hull one of Iain's London cameos would almost certainlly have emerged from Wendal Workshops by now.

Just a thought, I wonder if we should merge the SGW concept with Iain's/MRJ's Cameo Layout challenge?

Keep posting!

Ian

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:43 pm

There was some discussion of how to model setts in the previous thread, but now I have more related questions. From the pictures I've seen of tracks laid in setts there seem to be three styles of check rails. I'm wondering which would be appropriate.
1) No check rail. Setts between the running rails but with a gap for the flanges.
2) Very thin check rail, almost looks like angle iron.
3) Full sized bullhead rail. Similar to continuous check rails on tight curves, but with setts up against the inside edge.

I think option number 3 would be my preference, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

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RobM
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby RobM » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:52 pm

I think option 2 would look the part. It was not until I was well on the way with Manston Brewery that I considered a continuous check rail in the area within the setts. I would have used ply and rivet setting the rivets inboard every other sleeper for the 'check rail' and the 'check rail' made up from Eileen's 2mm nickel strip. The spacing between the rails achieved with the flange way gauge.
See photo 3 and 4 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39609-inset-track-and-cobbles/
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Armchair Modeller
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Armchair Modeller » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:16 pm

Not sure that a load of cobbles is quite the right thing, to be honest. There clearly are goods yard where most of the area is cobbled, but there are many where hard surfaces are limited to the bits between the tracks only, for the most part, not between the rails.

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http://www.nrm.org.uk/img/nrm/worksphot ... S_6430.jpg

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Maybe a bit of variety would look better?

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Guy Rixon » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:33 pm

Option number 2 sounds like tramway rail, where the rail-head section includes a flange to keep the road surface clear of the running surface and a trough to clear the flanges. Somewhat like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobwatt/457579484/. I don't know how common this was for yard track.

If the track needs a functional check rail, then I guess it has to be option 3.

Phil O
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Phil O » Tue May 02, 2017 7:39 am

Most of the track within Devonport Dockyard is of tramway style track except where check rails were required or through the tunnel that links the 3 sections of the yard which was chaired bullhead. I believe that the link to the mainline may now be flat-bottomed rail.

Phil

garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Mon May 08, 2017 2:27 pm

Bit more progress yesterday. I have laid all the wooden sleepers, some with strategically located rivets, most without. I have also decided to go with full sized continuous checkrail on the inlaid track. I like the look and it's quite easy to do. I've got two crossing Vs made up, two more to do and the rest of the trackwork should be straight forward.

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Last edited by garethashenden on Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Knuckles
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby Knuckles » Sun May 14, 2017 1:54 pm

Looking good.

2 days ago I ripped my mini P4 layout up so I guess I'll be opening a new thread in due time too! Not all wasted though, learned loads.

I was enjoying your other thread but an basic inglenook type design can be boring after a while I'd agree, I did enjoy shunting it with the electro magnets though. A run around loop I found was very much desired as you done in this new one.

Looking forward to reading/seeing more.
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garethashenden
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Re: Unnamed Inner City Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:45 pm

Finally getting back to this. I don't like tracklaying and I've been procrastinating, well time to stop that! I've finished all the check rails for the inlaid section, laid the rails to the fiddle yard and set out along the back track. I've only got three "large" pieces of rail left to lay, then some closure rails and all the point blades. The end is in sight!

Image

garethashenden
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:18 pm

I've finally picked a name for this layout. Near the area I've imagined this layout there is a road that crosses the canal. It's Queensbridge Road, so the layout is Queensbridge Road Wharf. Bridge-Road-Wharf might be a bit much, but I think it sounds good.

Knuckles
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Knuckles » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:36 pm

The name does have a good ring to it. How are you finding the PCB construction? Never tried it myself, have only done functional chairs.

Progress is looking good, the track as you described is starting to have a more completed feel about it.

If electrics are sound is it ballasting next or you doing other things first?
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Hi Gareth, :)

I thought I would have a look at what you are building - looks very promising! I note that several suggestions have been made as to what to do about sets. My old Dubbieside layout has concrete infill for the dock area, but equally it would have been possible to draw out sets - particularly difficult between curving track. What I did on Dubbie all these years ago was to use polystyrene sheet used for printing in Primary Schools - but also from your local supermarket hiding under pizza. To get started take the sheet and press the underside down on the track - this will give a perfect imprint of the railhead, cut along the inside edge of the marks made by the check rails and place between the rails you will find it will probably clip in place exactly. Just draw on the set patterns using a sharp pencil. ;)

If doing concrete you can draw out the joints filled with tar for expansion, cracks and crumbling concrete can be created using(sparingly) a little solvent which allows the interior to collapse. You can use white glue to stick it in place. It paints well using enamels can be glued and surface materials added - chalk, dust, etc.

If the material is slightly too high it can be gently flattened down to rail level using a rubber roller. I have been using this material for 50 years now and have seen no sign of decay including complete buildings. It is also useful for doing the sides of concrete docks and wooden piers. :idea:

DSC02238.JPG
This seagull eye view shows the concrete dock surface, which includes sets and I simply stuck plastic strip to simulate the check rail on to the poly surface.


DSC02253.JPG
This old stables for the shunting and delivery horses is made from the same material and has withstood one complete demolishing in its time! The building and stonework was taken from photographs of the one at Largo on the old railway running around Fife. Sorry about the horse droppings by the way.


DSC02234.JPG
Here you see the dockside, including the old rail used as a guard in case wagons, locos, etc should go astray. (Based on Kirkcaldy harbour)

allanferguson
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby allanferguson » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:03 pm

That stuff is extremely useful for representing rough stonework -- it scribes so very easily; much quicker and easier, dare I say it, than scribed plaster!
Very many years ago when we built "Bonnybridge" I built the bridge facings, and the cottages from this material, which I bought from you, I think, under the name "Waverley Board". I've never been able to find it since.

Allan Ferguson

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:50 am

Hi Allan, :)

the material is a form of foam board. It is available in many sizes from http://www.foam-board.co.uk/ the material is also supplied for primary schools for printing by Berol who also supply to individuals running businesses. However as I said it is possible to use the foam board bases for pizza can be used - it tends to be textured on one side, but this does not matter in most cases. I note that it also comes with a sticky backing if necessary nowadays. It was Berol who supplied me when I had the Melrose Model Railway Museum back in the 1980's. I came across it first during teacher training in 1970/71.

I really do not understand why it is not more widely used in modelling despite Ian Rice suggesting using it some time ago. I think it is perhaps because it looks like a fragile material which will break down over a period of time, but this is not the case which asks other questions about the material breaking down (or not) when released out into the environment. It is great for creating old worn surfaces as it can take many types of mark - good to paint and it is possible to resurface accidental damage by using plasticine - which can also be used as a filler. Plasticine dries out without any contraction over time and also takes enamel paint well which gives a harder enamel surface which helps to keep it right. Both are simple materials and very useable with little mess compared to other materials used for the same purpose, quick to work and permanent. :thumb

Foam board can be glued using white glue and pins to hold it together, if you are using it to make buildings. It is semi transparent and requires lining with card if being used for buildings if you intend them to be lit. However I have used the fact that light can pass through by fitting lamps made of perspex filed to shape to walls and lighting from behind the foam board wall the effect is that the lamp appears to be lighting up the wall. :idea:

It is also great for constructing free standing walls and is amazingly strong with plasticard stuck on either side and the centre of the sandwich. I am using the material on my new layout in a similar way to construct the baseboards. Foam board is available with card backing from craft shops in large sheets and thicker than the foam board used for pizza bases.

That's probably enough about the material here as I do not want it to distract too much from what Gareth is building. I like his idea for building an inner city situation - there were many interesting, small but busy locations that would make good compact layouts often with industries requiring specialised wagons and equipment - iron works or fabrication, stone masons, electrical equipment, concrete casting, timber yards, gas works, food products dairy/beef etc. Really looking forward to seeing just what Gareth makes of his layout so many possibilities. :)

garethashenden
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby garethashenden » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:32 pm

Thanks for that Allan. I'm always interested in new ways of doing things. Just one quick question about the foam board, it's not paperbacked foam board right? Just plain foam?

Since Photobucket stole all the pictures from the other thread, here's how I started doing the setts there and how I was planning on doing them here. Das clay spread over the area and then formed with an old paintbrush while still wet. Once dry I painted them.
Image
Image

I'll see if I can find some foam locally and do some experiments. While I'm usually fine ordering things from the UK, it seems a little silly in this case.

dal-t
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby dal-t » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:44 pm

garethashenden wrote:I'll see if I can find some foam locally and do some experiments.


You may be in for a slight shock/disappointment, Gareth. It does seem that UK prices for foamboard are particularly attractive. I don't know what it's like Stateside, but ici sur le continent it costs three or four times (or more!) UK rates. Something strange seems to be going on in the market, because most UK sellers refuse to export, and the source I got some from a couple of years ago has now also fallen into line. And that's in the EU that is still supposed to be a single market ...
David L-T

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Queensbridge Road Wharf

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:24 pm

You are making a nice job with the Das Gareth and I would not want to put you off doing it this way - the results look good. :thumb I do use Das every now and again I did all my field walls using it on my Grayrigg layout - easy to follow the land contours with it.

We are building a number of buildings just now for Burntisland using a form of Pollyfilla, which dries rock hard - a bit too hard for my own liking and progress has been slower than I would normally have expected with Das- however it is a group effort and Lindsay Galloway has been showing by example by building the engine shed, which I think is exceptional. :)

I have no doubt we will get all the buildings built eventually and the finish will be perhaps stronger and more likely to stand up to shocks using the material, so I look forward to seeing the results.

I note the comment about costs, but you get one sheet free with every pizza to try. foam board comes plain, or with a stick on backing (which I have not tried), or card covered - single sided or double sided - each of which has different uses. It is also commonly used by Graphics companies who have a version with thick card on both sides and a printable plastic coating - this can be used to print photographic back scenes on. If you are using the latter- taking off the plastic coating on one side will result in major curving of the board - taking the other side coating off only partially straightens the board again. Taking off both coatings gently and carefully at the same time gives a better straighter board. Graphics companies often have offcuts they can give you for free. :idea:

DSC02291.JPG
The large distillery building dominating this scene has been built using the last named type of display board, the lower building - a sack store and office is made from plain foam board and is again about 50years old. The grain sucker - used for unloading grain ships is made from brass - the original plastic one was destroyed by a ladies hand bag one day in the museum.


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