Tongue End

A forum for participants in the Standard Gauge Workbench.
paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:32 am

I have been thinking about an entry for the SGW for a while now and I think I'm finally ready to get started.

My plan is going to be based on The Midland and Great Northern Railway, circa 1900-1910, and based on the very small station of Counterdrain. This station was named after the drain it crossed before the station, the nearest stettlement being Tongue End, hence the name.

Counterdrain was a single platfrm station with a goods loop and a goods shed on the loop. My plan which I'll upload later will be the station building and half the platform, half the goods loop and low releief goods shed, and an extra siding.

The goods shed and station building will be view blockers to hide fiddle yard entry/exit.

As a relatively new member of the society I have been collecting kits for the rolling stock and loco's and this will give me a shove to get everything started.

Hopefully regular if slow updates to follow

Paul

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:49 pm

Hopefully if I've done this right you should see a very basic drawing of what I'm planning below..........
[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/EUjp9r]Image[/url]IMG_20160330_173503 by Paul Atack, on Flickr[/url]

Any comments welcome

Cheers

Paul

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Flymo748
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Re: Tongue End

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:12 pm

paul4147 wrote:As a relatively new member of the society I have been collecting kits for the rolling stock and loco's and this will give me a shove to get everything started.

Hopefully regular if slow updates to follow

Paul


Hi Paul,

All things in their own time! Welcome to the Society and the Forum, and we'll look forward to hearing more about your modelling as it goes along...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Terry Bendall
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Tongue End

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:04 am

A nice simple idea of a rarely modelled prototype to start with and if you can get to Scalefour North there will be lots of people you can talk to for advice, including those on the Society stand.

Terry Bendall

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:13 pm

Thanks for the welcome's.

The M&GN is very rarely modelled, but a fascinating line that I'm very much enjoying researching. I lived in Bourne for a few years and walked some of the old trackbed which is where my interest started. If only i'd have taken a camera.....

I will be at Scalefour north on the Saturday, if not both days so hope to put some faces to names there.

Paul

paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:20 pm

Spent a happy few hours Saturday at Scalefour North, one of the best shows I've been to and left much lighter in the pocket because of it!

Did manage to pick up this from the bring and buy stall

[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/GmJ4vZ]Image[/url]IMG_20160417_210831 by Paul Atack, on Flickr

It contains a few wagon drawings so a very lucky find, and have also started on the first loco, a fox and walker saddle tank, so will keep updating progress as I make any

Paul

paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:37 am

It's been a while since I updated this thread or to be honest have been able to do anything towards even getting started, a promotion at work and family have taken any time that I may have had.

I have now managed to start one of the NLR coach kits I bought from LRM at Scalefour North and when I've made some progress I'll probably start a workbench thread.

Whilst not being able to make progress I have been giving a lot of thought to what I want to achieve from this first layout and because of this I'm changing the time I'm modelling. When starting I based my time frame of 1900-1910 available kits and what I could buy to speed the building up, but what I really enjoy is the research and building of stock I really want to build and so now the layout is going to be based on 1890-1895.

Updates to this and the possible addition of a workbench thread to follow

Paul

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Paul Townsend
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:01 am

paul4147 wrote: a promotion at work Paul

Bad luck. Thats the worst thing that ever happened to my modelling time while I was a wage-slave

paul4147 wrote: but what I really enjoy is the research and building of stock I really want to build and so now the layout is going to be based on 1890-1895.


Excellent, nearly the proper period for discerning modellers. :)

paul4147 wrote:Updates to this and the possible addition of a workbench thread to follow


I look forward to it.

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Ian Everett
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby Ian Everett » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:28 am

Hi, Paul.

I seem to have missed your initial postings so I'm pleased to see progress on another SGW layout. The M&GN was a very unusual railway, running a main line service on what at first sight looks like a branch line infrastructure, so you've bitten off quite a lot!

Can you point us to any images of the station and goods shed so we can get an idea of what it is going to look like?

One point on the layout design - it would be very useful to use some photocopies of track templates (or learn how to use Templot...) and cornflake-packet mock-ups of the buildings to see how it will all fit in.

I like your use of buildings to act as view blockers. These can be very effective if the layout is at eye-level.

Keep posting!

Ian (SGW coordinator)

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:59 am

Thanks for the replies

Photographs of Counterdrain station on which this is based are quite rare, I have a couple in a book and luckily a drawing of the station building, the goods shed I haven't got any pictures of however it's identical to the goods shed at the next station up the line - North Drove, which again is in the same book.

There are a couple of pics online and when I figure out how to attach them i'll add them.

I must admit the length of the cross over has been concerning me in terms of the space available, so i'm slowly learning templot to ensure everything looks right and makes the current plan workable. If not I have a back up plan for the same location that will work but won't have the goods shed included.

As a quick check does anyone know how long a cross over is based on B6/7

Paul

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:14 am

[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/JYf9qd]Image[/url]USED..counter-drain-station-1958 by Paul Atack, on Flickr[/url]

Hopefully a pic of counterdrain station

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John Bateson
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Re: Tongue End

Postby John Bateson » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:23 am

Have you looked at old-maps.co.uk? These do show sometimes individual tracks but you would need to subscribe to see better detail than the free version.
Try the Lincolnshire 1905 series.

paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:46 am

John,

Never heard of this before but i'll certainly be having a look, thanks

Paul

Chris Mitton
Posts: 185
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Re: Tongue End

Postby Chris Mitton » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:58 am

paul4147 wrote:As a quick check does anyone know how long a cross over is based on B6/7
Paul

Hi Paul

Assuming the track is straight - the fen country was dead flat and even the rivers were largely artificial and so also straight, so there was no reason to build it anything else - and assuming the "six-foot" is actually ten feet (as required between sidings and running lines), my B7s (drawn with Templot) are around 640 mm, measured from switch toe to switch toe. So your plan is probably do-able within four feet eight-and-a-half (1435 mm)......

Don't forget, if you're drawing it up with Templot, that in your period there weren't any B switches, they would have been nine-feet or more likely twelve-feet. As the M&GN had a habit of building stations in the middle of nowhere, where land was dirt cheap, they'd have had no need to use tight curves, so I'd go for twelve-footers (which won't make too much difference to their length).

Hope this helps,
Regards
Chris.

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Thanks, that exactly what I was after,

Cheers

Paul

Alan Turner
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby Alan Turner » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:22 pm

Here you go:

Counter Drain.png


regards

Alan

paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:35 pm

Wonderful Alan, thanks ever so much

Paul

paul4147
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:05 pm

After further research it appears the Eastern and Midlands railway and the lines before this were built using 70-lb FB rail, and this wasn't replaced until around 1894/5 when the M&GN had been formed and carried out relaying of the track.

So a question - would the Scalefour stores code 55 flat bottom rail be suitable to use or is there better alternative? i'm thinking ply and rivet construction with the rivets t'other way up and deeply ballasted as per photographs of early locomotives - would this work?

I have also found a drawing of an Eastern and Midlands railway signal post in a book purchased a while ago, and these again weren't replaced until around the same time the track was replaced again 1894/5.

This little project seems to get bigger and bigger by the day...

Paul

Armchair Modeller
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:40 pm

I am not sure how tall your rail should be, but normal 4mm FB rail would almost certainly look way too bulky. Even with deep ballasting, the head is quite bulky - and the full rail would still need to be exposed in the vicinity of point blades.

I looked at lighter rail for my layout. In the UK, S4 code 55 is perhaps the best match, but it is made of steel so may be prone to rust, especially if you are deep ballasting. Peco code 60 is an alternative, but the foot is not very wide and it is a very yellow nickel silver, which would offend some people. Other than that, the 2mm scale Association and C&L do Code 40 - but that would almost certainly look way too small.

An alternative is to look to America, where Micro Engineering do nickel silver Code 55.

If you don't have easy access to any, I can post you short samples of the code 40, code 55 and code 60 rail. Just PM me your address.

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:58 pm

Thanks for the offer but I have a few samples, am probably going to do some mock ups to see what looks closest to the pictures I have

Thanks again

Paul

Alan Turner
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby Alan Turner » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:08 pm

paul4147 wrote:
So a question - would the Scalefour stores code 55 flat bottom rail be suitable to use or is there better alternative? i'm thinking ply and rivet construction with the rivets t'other way up and deeply ballasted as per photographs of early locomotives - would this work?



Paul


70lbs/yd is about 4.5" high so at 1:76 that's code 59 so code 55 is bang on (with a little bit of wear.

regards

Alan

paul4147
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Tongue End

Postby paul4147 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:34 pm

Thanks Alan,

I've got some FB code 55 on order so when it arrives i'll knock up a test track and see how it looks, will post pictures once done and if possible a photo of the track in question for comparison.

Paul


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