Mount Woodville Works

[steve howe]

Fascinating project Rob, I love anything to do with industrial archaeology especially ceramics which was my specialism at Art college. I guess the works are producing salt glaze ware, I remember helping a friend of mine fire his salt glaze kiln, he only fired it about 3 times a year - it took that long for him to make the stuff to fill it - and it took about 3 days to get to temperature (around 1300c) using a mixture of oil and wood, but when it did, by God the fun started - standing on top of the kiln (usually in the middle of the night) lifting out the fireclay bungs with an iron hook and lobbing bags of wet rock salt into the white hot chamber then quickly closing up the ports again before the ensuing gas (basically mustard gas) could escape. This had to be done 3 or 4 times over a few hours to get the ware sufficiently glazed. Happy days.

There is a traditional salt glaze tile works at Elland, West Yorks. Still going strong since 1906

http://www.wtknowles.co.uk/

Don't forget the big pile of kiln wasters!

Looking forward to seeing this - will there be a few RSH saddletanks knocking around by any chance?

Steve

[RobM]

Hi Steve,
Helping your friend reminded me of a friend of mine who made Raku pottery. His kiln was a large oil drum fuelled with propane and all set up in his front garden on a large estate. Smoke billowed everywhere!

Kiln wasters? Are these the broken sections of which I have some good photos?

An interesting video which gives a good insight how the pipes were made……. http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/pipes

Yup, RSH (s) in a shabby state will be the motive power.
Rob

[steve howe]

Hoho, you got me going now!

fascinating film Rob, amazing how much hand finishing was required. When I lived in Hebden Bridge we had some of those crown top chimney pots on the house, one of them came loose in a gale once and had to be lashed to stop it rocking about...by gum they're bigger than they look from the ground when you're stood next to one 3 storeys up......

The film reminded me of a lovely documentary made about Isaac Button, the last of the Halifax big ware potters so I searched for it and, low and behold, its also in the archive:

http://www.yorkshirefilmarchive.com/film/isaac-button-country-potter?destination=search%2Fapachesolr_search%2Fisaac+button%3Ffilters%3Dtype%253Ayfa_film%2520bs_cck_field_videola_video%253A1%26highlight%3Disaac%252Cbutton%26mode%3Dquick%26solrsort%3Dscore%2520desc%252C%2520sis_cck_field_film_id%2520asc&highlight=isaac,button

A window onto another world..

I seem to have rambled off topic a bit, but the Society is, if nowt else, a 'broad church'!

Steve

[dal-t]

... the Society is, if nowt else, a 'broad church'!

Only if you're Irish, or a Brunel fan. Otherwise, we stick strictly to 4' 8.5" ...

[RobM]

The film reminded me of a lovely documentary made about Isaac Button, the last of the Halifax big ware potters so I searched for it and, low and behold, its also in the archive:
Steve

Some interesting parallels.
In the film, from 00.27 to 00.39, some quite inspirational material.

Only if you're Irish, or a Brunel fan. Otherwise, we stick strictly to 4' 8.5" ...

...

[RobM]

Over the last 4 weeks or so progress continues on the right hand board........

24-03-16-01.jpg

24-03-16-02.jpg

24-03-16-03.jpg

Rob

[garethashenden]

This looks great! I had no idea it had advanced this far.

[RobM]

This looks great! I had no idea it had advanced this far.

Thanks……..It's a toss between the 2 M's……... motorhome and modelling………modelling wins with unsettled weather.
Rob

[RobM]

Jim's post re fork lift trucks ……...http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=44762#p44762…has raised a question…….

The only reference I have for transporting the drain pipes is a pre WW2 photo which shows pipes loaded on a planked wagon with straw packing. Much 'Googling' for the period in the 1960's comes up with nothing…..so during the '60's were they stacked on pallets?
Rob

[Noel]

The only reference I have for transporting the drain pipes is a pre WW2 photo which shows pipes loaded on a planked wagon with straw packing. Much 'Googling' for the period in the 1960's comes up with nothing…..so during the '60's were they stacked on pallets?

Or had ceramic pipes (which were quite short) gone out of use by then?

[Phil O]

The only reference I have for transporting the drain pipes is a pre WW2 photo which shows pipes loaded on a planked wagon with straw packing. Much 'Googling' for the period in the 1960's comes up with nothing…..so during the '60's were they stacked on pallets?

Or had ceramic pipes (which were quite short) gone out of use by then?

3 foot long ceramic pipes were certainly available in the mid 70's as we had a few for our drainage system, when my parents were building a house extension. No doudt by then they were going by road.

Phil

[steve howe]

Jim's post re fork lift trucks ……...http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=44762#p44762…has raised a question…….

The only reference I have for transporting the drain pipes is a pre WW2 photo which shows pipes loaded on a planked wagon with straw packing. Much 'Googling' for the period in the 1960's comes up with nothing…..so during the '60's were they stacked on pallets?
Rob

Rob,
Could try dropping Knowles an email? they presumably have a Company archive and most old established companies are keen to help researchers.

Steve

[garethashenden]

I recently saw a picture of a engineering train which included a shock open. It was full of pipes packed in straw, c.1960. But I can't remember exactly where the picture was. I'll try to find it again.

[RobM]

As Phil O says, ceramic pipes were still about in the 70's.
Steve I'll bear your suggestion in mind.

I recently saw a picture of a engineering train which included a shock open. It was full of pipes packed in straw, c.1960. But I can't remember exactly where the picture was. I'll try to find it again.

Thanks…….that would certainly help.
Rob

[jon price]

It looks (based on my limited research) as if palletisation became commonplace as a result of WW2. The first tilting high lift trucks appeared around 1927, at the same time that the double layer pallet began to be introduced. The military made extensive use of pallets in the war and post war there was therefore plenty of experience of using pallets, and plenty of surplus stock, both of pallets and of high lift trucks. (similarly the availability of surplus GS trucks in the UK after the war meant the final end of horse drawn traffic apart from the odd example) In the US this meant that palletisation on railways was pretty well complete by the late 40s. With smaller, less specialised wagons (no car body racks for example), the UK would have been slower on the uptake but as road haulage was overtaking rail way goods this was less of an issue.

"The standardised European EUR pallet, a well-known and integral part of the international logistics and goods distribution system, celebrated its 50th anniversary on Wednesday 11 May 2011 during the Transport Logistic trade fair in Munich where it was the subject of a dedicated forum organised by Gütegemeinschaft Paletten e.V., Germany’s national pallet manufacturing association. It was in 1961 that the International Union of Railways (UIC) took the initiative to sign an agreement on the use of a ‘standardised and exchangeable pallet’ among railways, whose mutual use was organised and managed within the European Pallet Pool (EPP), and later transferred in the early 1970s by the railways to the European Pallet Association (EPA)."

Not ceramic pipes, but chocolate in 1961 indicating state of the art transport (Ireland, Ulster ferries container)

irish 1961.jpg

By 1972 most goods were not only palletised, but containerised, hence the 1972 dock strike about deskilling/casualisation of labour.

Much material to be found on this page on palletisation in the US http://packagingrevolution.net/pallet-or-forklift/

article re development of use of pallet http://packagingrevolution.net/pallet-or-forklift/

article from 1961 re longshoremens' dispute in US https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=l ... lets&hl=en

[Noel]

The first pallet vans were three converted by BR from LMS unfitted D1897 vans from lot 927 of 1936, which remained unfitted after conversion. I don't know the conversion date, but they were given LMS D2177, which suggests a date not long after nationalisation. The first BR 1/211 Palvans appeared in 1952, but bulk production didn't start until 1956. Ordinary open merchandise wagons couldn't take pallets, unless loaded/unloaded by crane, so far as I know, but drop sided Pipes and Tubes obviously could. The first Palbricks appeared in 1957, so it would seem that BR was thinking about pallets early in the 1950s, and taking action to deal with such traffic by the mid-1950s.

[RobM]

Jon and Noel…….many thanks for the information…..
Rob

[garethashenden]

As Phil O says, ceramic pipes were still about in the 70's.
Steve I'll bear your suggestion in mind.

I recently saw a picture of a engineering train which included a shock open. It was full of pipes packed in straw, c.1960. But I can't remember exactly where the picture was. I'll try to find it again.

Thanks…….that would certainly help.
Rob

I've found it. Page 523 of the October 2015 issue of Railway Bylines. March 1 1959, taken at Coalville and included in an article about a 'Burton District Railtour'.

[RobM]

Thanks for taking the trouble, I don't have Railway Bylines but know one of our area group who does. Thanks again.
Rob

[RobM]

The last month has been taken up with building the track on the left board, wiring up and fitting the point motors. Manston Brewery's locos and rolling stock travelled the few miles south and have extensively tested the track work which can now be covered with the various road ways and debris.

progress-02-05-16.jpg

Rob

[RobM]

Work continues………..

engine-shed.jpg

Had not noticed that the water tank (temporarily positioned) was not seated properly when photographing hence the lean.
Manston's loco making an appearance to keep check of the track as more and more DAS is added.

[Knuckles]

I'm absolutely loving your work, Rob.

I've been watching this progress for a while but haven't said anything until now but your style I find very convincing. Having met you recently and seeing the brewery up close I can definetly say it will be a challenge for your skills to get much better. Maybe that is debatable to some, really good work all round though. Digging the concrete tracks. What method did you use to smooth the tops and keep the flange ways clear? I so far have only tried two methods but they don't look a patch on yours.

Is this new layout designed to connect to the brewery or is it standalone?

[RobM]

Thanks Gavin......To keep the flange ways and inner rails clear I run an Exactoscale roller guage through the wet DAS. Once dry I sand it down to just below rail height using a small sanding block. Narrow sections are sanded using cut down nail emery boards. Stock is then run through and any tight spots are sorted with the scalpel.

roadways.jpg

[Knuckles]

Awesome, many thanks for the lesson.
Visually inspiring stuff to me.

Keep on rollergauging on. (I win a Lime for the worst attempt at being funny)

[RobM]

Onwards with the kilns and chimneys. All built as a module to be screwed to the base board.

kiln-module.jpg

Photos also show up bits that need tweaking.........

bent-ladders!.jpg

kilns01.jpg

Rob