Pelton Level

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John Donnelly
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Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:01 am

Better late than never, here's my entry for the SGW...

Work on 'The Works' layout that I've been building has slowed to a crawl as it's limitations begin to dawn on me so I thought I'd start afresh with something based on a real location. As I didn't want to stray too far from the Tyne Dock to Consett line, I've decided on a layout based on Pelton Level, an outstation of Tyne Dock shed on the Stanhope and Tyne Railway. To date, I've only seen two photographs of the site both of which appear in Railway Bylines Issue 4, Volume 1 from June 1996.

Templot track plan is below and is a simplified version of the real thing which had another two lines at the front and an additional in front of the rearmost line. The orange box represents the engine shed and the blue box what was, I believe, a water tower.

Image

The site has a number of different levels with the land falling away on either side of the line, the rearmost is the beginning of Eden Hill incline, the shed itself is at a lower level that the lines in front of it and the short siding behind the shed climbs towards the water tower but as, we don't have working brakes on our models I'll be modelling it flat.

The 'main line's at the front led, to the left Craghead, Burnhope and West Pelton Collieries while to the right led to Waldridge Incline, the head of which would make an interesting model in itself but I couldn't make it fit in to the size restrictions of the SGW...

Coal obviously dominates while motive power was N8, N9 and N10s and various colliery engines with 03 and 08 shunters in later years with some records indicating the closure of the shed in 1951 albeit it was still in partial use until 1960.

Nothing remains at the site now which is now a golf course...

So, that's the plan, now for the execution...

John

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Flymo748
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:49 am

John Donnelly wrote:Better late than never, here's my entry for the SGW...

Work on 'The Works' layout that I've been building has slowed to a crawl as it's limitations begin to dawn on me so I thought I'd start afresh with something based on a real location.


There will be an Ian Everett along in a minute, to say that it's never too late to join in the SGW fun...

I just wanted to comment on what you say about The Works. Looking back at how it has developed over the course of the thread http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2048 then I feel that you should be very satisfied with it. To my eyes, it's a superb evocation of a particular place and time - a sort of early eighties industrial backwater that is so familiar to me from growing up in the Black Country.

You may have found limitations in it operationally (perhaps) but in terms of demonstrating excellent modelling techniques and creating a superb photo-set for your rolling stock, I'd find it hard to beat.

All the best with the new project. Now where did I put my own Round Tuit???

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Ian Everett
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Ian Everett » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:16 am

Flymo748 wrote:
There will be an Ian Everett along in a minute, to say that it's never too late to join in the SGW fun...

All the best with the new project. Now where did I put my own Round Tuit???

Cheers
Flymo


Bang on cue, here he is!

I confess that N8s, N9s and N10s are very much to my taste, having lived my early years in a house overlooking Hull's Springhead yard, which was infested with NER locos and thousands of filthy coal wagons. So I look forward to seeing your progress. (There's no love like your first love - which is not to say that I do not value the projects located in other parts of the country - variety s the spice of life!))

You mention the incline to the rear of the plan. Are you planning to extend the layout eventually to include it? I would have thought it would be interesting in its own right - I'm thinking of Middleton Top, of course

There will be a small demo of SGW projects at Scalefour North, so if you will be there you would be welcome to put on a small display of your plans and progress so far. Do PM if you are interested.

Best wishes and welcome to the SGW!

Ian

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:22 am

Flymo748 wrote:I just wanted to comment on what you say about The Works. Looking back at how it has developed over the course of the thread http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2048 then I feel that you should be very satisfied with it. To my eyes, it's a superb evocation of a particular place and time - a sort of early eighties industrial backwater that is so familiar to me from growing up in the Black Country.

You may have found limitations in it operationally (perhaps) but in terms of demonstrating excellent modelling techniques and creating a superb photo-set for your rolling stock, I'd find it hard to beat.


Thanks for that, your comments are very much appreciated. I've certainly learned a great deal in the process of making the existing layout including P4 isn't anywhere near as difficult as some seem to believe, the main issue I have with it is the shortness of the sidings (I really should have made it 4'8" and bit long rather than just 4') and I will in all likelyhood finish it at some point - as you say it works well as a photo set if nothing else particularly as the South Pelaw layout is a long time away at the minute...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:26 am

Ian Everett wrote:You mention the incline to the rear of the plan. Are you planning to extend the layout eventually to include it? I would have thought it would be interesting in its own right - I'm thinking of Middleton Top, of course


I am giving thoughts to an extension and the layout will be built to allow for it but I'd extend to the right to where the line led to Waldridge Bank Head and an incline that led to Stella Gill Yard. I can't get a decent representation of it in to the SGW parameters but it does have this wonderfull piece of trackwork that is crying out to be modelled with the terraces on the left forming a perfect backdrop...

Image

Quite how/if it could be done in Templot I don't know...

John

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Ian Everett
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Ian Everett » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:29 pm

John Donnelly wrote:
Quite how/if it could be done in Templot I don't know...

John


I'm sure MW could oblige. I just love that B-0 turnout(or is it B-Infinity?) in the middle of the picture! :)

Ian

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jim s-w
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby jim s-w » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:48 pm

That's pretty cool. Any idea what the logic behind it was. It looks overly Complicated and I can make out what the gain is

Cheers

Jim

hughesp87
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby hughesp87 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:38 pm

As Jim says, quite an impressive piece of trackwork that looks overly complicated but in fact is quite logical.

It looks complicated because this is an incline with a single rope and winding drum at the head. Rather than a continuous rope there are two 'tails' coming off the top and bottom of the winding drum, one of which runs along the left hand track and the other along the right. The usual conventions of 'up' and 'down' roads don't apply and in fact both tracks are bi-directional. At the incline head, the two outside tracks are for wagons heading down the incline, hence the raised sections or 'kips' in the view, which were to get the wagons started. The centre road is for arriving wagons.

The interesting part in all this is the subtle changes of gradient which are necessary to get wagons moving as safely as possible with the benefit of gravity, and also to ensure that once they have reached the top the don't roll back down again (with disastrous consequences!).

The shared third rail in the centre section is probably a simple economy measure. You will see that further down the hill the tracks separate into a more conventional formation. This would be the passing point at the half way mark, with a similar section of 3-rail track below it.

Working this sort of thing out for a model is fascinating stuff! It took me some time to work out the basics of operation for Middlepeak Incline on my former CHPR layout, which was a simpler continuous rope incline. Happy to share my experiences in a PM, if anyone is contemplating a working incline on their layout

Regards,

Geraint Hughes
Geraint Hughes
Cromford & High Peak in P4
Danish Railways in P87

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Guy Rixon » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:46 pm

I find it interesting that there are no turn-on scotches in this view. Would they be further back, out of shot?

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Martin Wynne » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:24 pm

John Donnelly wrote:Quite how/if it could be done in Templot I don't know...

Hi John,

Certainly it can be done in Templot. But not with a couple of clicks. :)

It needs to be built up from multiple partial templates. I will have a go later. What is the track gauge?

regards,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:48 pm

Cheers Martin its standard gauge track.

John

hughesp87
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby hughesp87 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:40 pm

Guy Rixon wrote:I find it interesting that there are no turn-on scotches in this view. Would they be further back, out of shot?


Guy,

Yes, most likely, as the catch points are only just in view and they would have been a secondary safety measure, after the scotches.

There's a lot more about the working of various types if incline in the Industrial Railway Society book on the subject, published a couple of years ago.

Geraint
Geraint Hughes
Cromford & High Peak in P4
Danish Railways in P87

Terry Bendall
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:35 pm

The Modellers Yearbook, from Rail Express, published last November and still available, included a very interesting article on the Corkickle Incline which was opened in 1881 to connect Croft Pit with the Furness Railway's Whitehaven to Barrow line. The incline survived in use until 1986 which gave rise to the sight of modern air braked wagons on a rope worked incline. With a length of 525 yards it would be quite feasible to build an accurate 4mm scale model.

Terry Bendall

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:44 pm

Despite it being no more than a plan at the minute, the layout has gained it's first wagon - this came up on eBay and I couldn't resist. It's a kit of indertminate origin but is well put together with compenstion on one axle and well finished (subject to a bit more weathering) and it runs well through the pointwork on the existing layout:

Image

I've also managed to get a close up photo of the front of the engine shed which I can't publish due to copyright but, by counting bricks, I've started on the drawings for the shed although I've not decided yet whether to go for laser etched MDF as some of the brickwork may be a little challenging in styrene...

John

Porcy Mane
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Porcy Mane » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:28 am

Hello John

Your posting has prompted me to de lurk and pass a few comments. Hope you don't mind

If you're going down the steam route as well as Diesel you could also add J21 an J25's to the loco roster as these regularly worked up the Waldridge incline on weekends or if the rope (cable) was being changed.

You could even run industrials such as Twizell. NCB locos would travel from Morrison Busty down BR metals over the new Stanhope & Tyne route then run back up the original rope worked route to access Pelton /Handen Hold, Beamish Mary and Beamish Eden collieries plus the Beamish Loco works. (That was after the NCB's closed the eastern end of the Beamish Wagonway).

Dependent on how much licence you want to run you've no need to model the top of Waldridge incline.
You could model the Kip & Dish of the bottom of the Eden Incline as it ended directly opposite the engine shed. It was basically the top two tracks on you plan. You would need and additional track but the layout is not as complex as that shown in your attached photo above, as no triple track would be needed as you're below the meetings (passing loop).

After the Eden incline was closed the Kip & Dish and track was left in for a few hundred yards towards the level crossing on the Pelton to Grange Villa Road and this was used for wagon storage.

The NCB installed a full set of sidings to the North of the top two tracks shown on your plan in the late 1950's after they built a new state of the art coal washing plant directly opposite the loco shed. The washer's aerial flight for stone disposal went virtually over the top of the shed. Unique if you modelled that...

Remind me to buy some shares in Parkside Dundas because as you progress you'll need dozens of 21 ton hoppers!

Another magazine you could dig out is the Sept 1975 issue of Model Railways. It has an article on North East Rope worked incline with a few pictures of the Waldridge incline.

Strange you should post this as I've just been doing some work on my Waldridge Bank 08 this evening. Here's the wheel-sets. Adding the speedo drive to the coupling rods has been tonight's job.
Hornby08-P4Mods-8-EditSm.jpg
Hornby08-P4Mods-8-EditSm.jpg (480.45 KiB) Viewed 7330 times

If you're going to Wakefield remind me nearer the date and I'll make sure the Lever arch is loaded with some Waldridge photographs.

Hope things are looking up?
Porcy

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:27 am

Porcy Mane wrote:Your posting has prompted me to de lurk and pass a few comments. Hope you don't mind


Hi Paul, don't mind at all.

Porcy Mane wrote:If you're going down the steam route as well as Diesel you could also add J21 an J25's to the loco roster as these regularly worked up the Waldridge incline on weekends or if the rope (cable) was being changed.

You could even run industrials such as Twizell. NCB locos would travel from Morrison Busty down BR metals over the new Stanhope & Tyne route then run back up the original rope worked route to access Pelton /Handen Hold, Beamish Mary and Beamish Eden collieries plus the Beamish Loco works. (That was after the NCB's closed the eastern end of the Beamish Wagonway).


I'm planning on doing both - never build a steam loco before...

Porcy Mane wrote:Dependent on how much licence you want to run you've no need to model the top of Waldridge incline.
You could model the Kip & Dish of the bottom of the Eden Incline as it ended directly opposite the engine shed. It was basically the top two tracks on you plan. You would need and additional track but the layout is not as complex as that shown in your attached photo above, as no triple track would be needed as you're below the meetings (passing loop).

After the Eden incline was closed the Kip & Dish and track was left in for a few hundred yards towards the level crossing on the Pelton to Grange Villa Road and this was used for wagon storage.


I was considering modelling the rear track as the closed incline and using the one in front for wagons.

Porcy Mane wrote:The NCB installed a full set of sidings to the North of the top two tracks shown on your plan in the late 1950's after they built a new state of the art coal washing plant directly opposite the loco shed. The washer's aerial flight for stone disposal went virtually over the top of the shed. Unique if you modelled that...


Interesting, I wasn't aware but having just looked at a plan from the 1960's I see what you mean, interesting...

Porcy Mane wrote:Another magazine you could dig out is the Sept 1975 issue of Model Railways. It has an article on North East Rope worked incline with a few pictures of the Waldridge incline.


I shall try and track down a copy.

Porcy Mane wrote:If you're going to Wakefield remind me nearer the date and I'll make sure the Lever arch is loaded with some Waldridge photographs.


Certainly planing to if things at home allow, are you there all weekend?

Porcy Mane wrote:Hope things are looking up?


Thanks for asking but, unfortunately not, nothing more that can be done, just waiting for the inevitable...

Cheers

John

Porcy Mane
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Porcy Mane » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:47 am

are you there all weekend?


Health, weather and good mates... permitting.

I'll be confusing myself in my usual spot.

P

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:25 pm

Porcy Mane wrote:The washer's aerial flight for stone disposal went virtually over the top of the shed. Unique if you modelled that...


Just found a photo of it in Roger Darsley's Consett to South Shields book, wonder if it could be made to work...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:12 pm

Turnouts have been constructed with Exactoscale components for those on the visible section and copperclad for the fiddle yard:

Image

Image

Image

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:33 pm

Motivation has been severely lacking since my wife's death (tomorrow will be a year to the day since she was diagnosed as terminal) but, this evening, I've printed out the Templot plan and started laying out some track (Exactoscale bases with C&L NiHi track) to get a feel of how it's going to work...

Image

Image

John

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby Martin Wynne » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:02 pm

Martin Wynne wrote:Certainly it can be done in Templot. But not with a couple of clicks. :)
It needs to be built up from multiple partial templates. I will have a go later. What is the track gauge?

It seems that I didn't get round to that, but John has now done it himself in Templot, see: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?i ... orum_id=22

regards,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:58 pm

Martin Wynne wrote:John has now done it himself in Templot


Thanks in a very large part to assistance from Martin.

Since I posted on the Templot forum I've done some more work to the plan which I've skewed to match the original a little better and I've expanded it further up the bank head:

Image

The Pelton Level layout will still be built for the SGW but I'm to look at ways to make this plan an extension to Pelton Level...

John

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:36 pm

After my experience with The Works, I wanted to make sure to treat the fiddle yards as part of the 'whole', so I've completed a final draft of the track plan:

Image

A small change to the original plan has been to terminate the original through road at the front and turn it in to a siding which gives a single through road - a number of the collieries in the locality were served by single lines so this remains prototypical while giving an additional siding for shunting.

I'm going to go for 3 road traversers for both fiddle yards and I've added an additional turnout within the right hand fiddle yard to bring the track to a single line prior to reaching the traverser.

My only concern is the incline at the rear - as this will be raised at the left hand end, the fiddle yard will need to be two levels so I think I'll just have a cassette for the top of the incline.

The scenic board is 1435mm and each fiddle yard is 1200mm in total with a traverser being a minimum length of 700mm which is long enough for an 0-6-0 and 5 21T hoppers or 6 16T wagons.

Baseboard components (dowels, bolts etc.) arrived today so just need to get the wood for the baseboards purchased and cut...

John

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steamraiser
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby steamraiser » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:08 pm

The bottom long siding is crying (In my eyes) to be converted to a loop?

Gordon A

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John Donnelly
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Re: Pelton Level

Postby John Donnelly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:30 pm

After a good few months where I've struggled to muster up any interest in modelling, baseboard construction has finally started:

Image

The track work is on an embankment so the front of the board will be cut down to allow for this.

John


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