Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

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Terry Bendall
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:22 am

ICollett wrote:neither the garden shed or the garage are even remotely suitable for layout building or accommodation purposes.


It does of course depend on the quality of these building. I have had a wooden building as a workshop/layout room in the garden for the last 40 years. In each house we have lived in we have been able to afford a slightly bigger space each time. My present workshop is 24 feet x 8 feet and came as a kit of parts. It is lined and there is 2 inch rockwool insulation in the gap between the lining and the walls and roof. There is a 30 amp capacity power supply so that takes care of the heating, light and power. Normally a 2 kw electric radiator under the bench is all I need to keep warm.

Although there are some disadvantages of a building in the garden it does mean that everything can be left as it is ready for the next session.

ICollett wrote:An idea is forming for filing of turnout 'V's and blades using Aluminium section stuck/clamped to the Trivet as the filing jigs are both OOS.


The filing jigs are now back in stock, or they will be when the parcel of jigs that I posted to Jeremy on Friday arrives. ;)
Don't buy them all at once otherwise I will need to get the rest sorted out before Scalefour North. :)

Terry Bendall

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jayell
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby jayell » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:50 am

ICollett wrote: What I discovered was something called a Trivet, made from polished black granite about 6" square and 3/4" deep with four rubber feet on the base. I imagine you're supposed to put your hot pan on it to protect the wood/melamine kitchen surfaces. It is, however, as far as I can tell perfectly flat, completely impervious to any available cutting equipment, the sides and top appear to be perfectly square, and it seems unaffected by either hot solder or flux. The best bit was the price - £3.99.


I found one of those online here:-
http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/black-g ... vet-108382
delivery charge adds another £6 so I'll have a look in local shops to see if they stock them. There is also a larger 16"x12" version @ £7.99

Some time ago I paid a visit to a local glass merchant and got a piece of 12" x12" 1/4" plate glass for about a fiver but if the trivet is really granite it should be less likely to break if something heavy is dropped on it.

Engineering 'Surface Plates' can be obtained in granite but are rather more expensive, Axminster Tools list one, 305 x 230 x 50mm, with a grade B flatness of ±0.0052mm with a price of £34.66. Of course you get a guaranteed 'flatness' with one of those which I don't suppose the furniture store one has :)
(Get two, coat the working surface of one in 'engineering blue' and rub the two together to find out how flat they are)

John

Natalie Graham
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Natalie Graham » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:52 pm

johnlewis wrote:
Engineering 'Surface Plates' can be obtained in granite but are rather more expensive, Axminster Tools list one, 305 x 230 x 50mm, with a grade B flatness of ±0.0052mm with a price of £34.66. Of course you get a guaranteed 'flatness' with one of those which I don't suppose the furniture store one has :)
(Get two, coat the working surface of one in 'engineering blue' and rub the two together to find out how flat they are)


The Axminster Tools one comes with a test certificate showing how flat it is. The furthest mine is out by 0.003mm at one corner. I don't think I will be modelling to quite that level of accuracy so, as far as I am concerned, it is flat.

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ICollett
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby ICollett » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:57 pm

johnlewis wrote:
(Get two, coat the working surface of one in 'engineering blue' and rub the two together to find out how flat they are)

John


Get three and some grinding paste and make a perfect flat one? It's probably a lot cheaper in the long run to pay the £34.66. "Surface Plate", I couldn't remember that one, I was Googling for "Engineer's Flat, Engineer's Datum" and getting some very odd websites. For £3.99 I'm fairly satisfied, and yes I found mine at Dunelm-Mill, it brightened up an otherwise dull shopping trip. Next time I'll get one of their thick cork mats, with some 'T' pins that would be just the job for holding plastic bodies together while the MekPak cures.

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ICollett
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby ICollett » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:09 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:It does of course depend on the quality of these building.


Terry - I'm green with envy - it sounds like you have the dream shed there. Mine is a poor 'dog kennel' of an affair by comparison. 7'6"" by 5' and currently under attack from next door's Ivy which has managed to penetrate under the eaves. The problem with putting my hobby in the office is will I get any work done?

Good news on the jigs, although as I only need to make four or five turnouts it may be better to borrow one at WMAG for a couple of hours to get the parts filed.

Philip Hall
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:17 pm

I'm with Terry on this, or, at least, I am in a hopeful way, for I am planning a garden room next year. I have found a local company who are offering me a 'garden studio' which is actually a version of their ''heavy duty workshop'. The floor is reinforced, so doesn't bounce when you walk across it. There will be huge amounts of insulation in the walls, roof and floors, plus a plasterboard lining, underfelt and a carpeted floor. Windows will be of a type you'd normally get in your house, simply because they were hardly more expensive than the wooden ones you get with a garden building. With adequate heating, I should end up with a large, warm, square room and a workbench flooded with daylight!

I still have a little measure of reserve at having to tramp down the garden for my hobby, but if the room is warm (or cool - should the need arise - we can have air conditioning) and comfortable, I think I can manage! And the amount of space for a railway with relatively generous curvature is a great bonus. I am conscious, though, that a new building like this is not an option for everyone, not least because it's going to cost quite a bit of money, and in that I am very lucky. Part of the deal, as my wife says, is that once I am turfed out of the loft room, where my workshop is at the moment, she gets the space I have vacated!

Philip

dal-t
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby dal-t » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:56 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Engineering 'Surface Plates' can be obtained in granite


Mine came in a 2.5 metre length, complete with three hefty guys to carry and fit it - ordered at the insistence of SHMBO, who has unrelenting standards when it comes to designing and installing her kitchens. The only problem I haven't yet cracked (sic) is how to get magnetic bases to snap to it ...
David L-T

Terry Bendall
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:30 am

ICollett wrote:Terry - I'm green with envy - it sounds like you have the dream shed there


It works for me, but I am lucky enough to have the space. Those who live in a flat or apartment, or who only have a small garden cannot go down that route.

Philip Hall wrote:I still have a little measure of reserve at having to tramp down the garden for my hobby


It can be a small problem especially if it is raining and walking through the snow may mean that you need to be determined. ;) In very cold weather I turn the heater on about 15 minutes before I want to start work. In the end the qualiity and amount of space that you have to work in is not very important, but it may make getting on with something easier. I can have more space with my workshop in the garden than I could ever have in the house.

Some time ago Allan Goodwille wrote the following:

"A Space to Work

When the children were small I had a small workbench in the living room, with the proviso that it was kept organised. Something like a bureau is fine as it can be closed up within a couple of minutes. A tray and a kitchen table also is fine with some place to hide it away when not in use. My friend Richard Chown made gauge O models during his lunch hour at work all out of a desk drawer. If you are lucky to have a permanent space to work in, then that is ideal. Nowadays I am lucky enough to have a workroom, but most of the work goes on in a space not much bigger than before. My railways are in a converted garage.

So find some place which will work for you."

In my view, very sound advice and I know a couple of people who use a bureau as a work space.

Terry Bendall

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Flymo748
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:39 am

Terry Bendall wrote:In my view, very sound advice and I know a couple of people who use a bureau as a work space.


<ahem...>

Before:

IMG_2507.JPG
IMG_2507.JPG (47.67 KiB) Viewed 4447 times


After:

IMG_7795 (Large).JPG


HTH
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
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jayell
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby jayell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:20 am

Flymo748 wrote:
Terry Bendall wrote:In my view, very sound advice and I know a couple of people who use a bureau as a work space.


<ahem...>

After:



Wot! no spraybooth in there :D

John

(who has a 20'x15' loftspace to play in as well as a 15'x12' computer room, shared with wife, for our genealogy stuff. Only snag is that if I lower the loft ladder it blocks access to the computer room so I have attached a rope to the ladder so I can haul it up out of the way when I am up there)

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:01 pm

johnlewis wrote:Wot! no spraybooth in there :D


Wot; more importantly is sitting on the work bench...........?

You've turned haven't you Paul?
Mark Tatlow

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Flymo748
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:55 pm

johnlewis wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:<ahem...>

After:



Wot! no spraybooth in there :D


Now labelled :-)

IMG_7795 (Spray).jpg


The spraybooth is in the pile of "airbrushing stuff" (looks left, from the top: Badger 150, spraybooth, facemask, compressor) balanced preariously at the side of the bureau. It's (the spraybooth, not the bureau) one of the collapsible ones from good old Derek at Eileens. One of these:

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5735&category_id=279&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

But without the ducting, which seems an innovation since I bought mine. It is very effective even without the duct though, and the filter seems to capture lots of the particulate. I still wear a filtered facemask though to avoid the onslaught of solvents.

Cheers!
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Flymo748
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:58 pm

Mark Tatlow wrote:
johnlewis wrote:Wot! no spraybooth in there :D


Wot; more importantly is sitting on the work bench...........?

You've turned haven't you Paul?


<whistles innocently> No...

This has been in progress for a little while. Members of NEEAG and CHEAG have seen it being brought out for progress reports. It's also my entry for the 2013 CHEAG Spot-on-ish Challenge.

<Rolf> Can you guess what it is yet? </Rolf>

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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ICollett
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby ICollett » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:46 am

First steps - have cleared out the junk in my office and moved the desk for more space. An old three tier computer desk is now a modelling bureau and tools have been moved in from the shed. They seem much happier in the warm and dry. Found R J Essery's LMS Wagons book in the library and am building the Ratio 12T Goods Van as 505000 as shown on Plate 78. Drilled out the Ratio plastic buffer body with a 1mm bit to take an Alan Gibson steel head and spring held in by a long buffer bearing super-glued to the back of the buffer beam, then set the travel by carefully gluing a short bearing to the end of the steel shank. I'm making this up as I go along because I haven't yet found any instructions on how to fit sprung buffers. I had considered bending over the thin steel shaft to keep the buffer head at the right distance from the body, and stop it falling out, but the likelihood of the thing snapping seemed too high so a short bearing and some glue seemed a safer option. Can always be undone with a little nail varnish remover if a better method presents itself (we hope?).

This is a fairly old Ratio kit picked up from a local stores 'oddments' bin - the plan is to start at the bottom of the kits barrel and build up the experience/techniques before getting to the nicer kits at the top - I'd rather make a muck-up of this Ratio kit bought for a fiver than fifteen quids worth of Parkside Dundas horse box. Anyway that's the theory.

A fairly close examination suggests that the Bill Bedford 1907 RCH W Irons are a good match for the LMS D1897 Goods Van - Any comments? Do I need to see the optician again? I can't locate an LMS specific W Iron etch at Eileen's Emporium. It appears that removing the plastic W Irons will also require a good chunk taking out of rear side of the sole bar, otherwise there will be a gap between axlebox and W Iron you can get a bus through.

I think I shall have fun with these W Irons, all does not seem as straight forward as some of the Digest Sheets and Scalefour News articles might suggest.... more anon.

shipbadger
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby shipbadger » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:04 am

ICollett wrote
I had considered bending over the thin steel shaft to keep the buffer head at the right distance from the body, and stop it falling out, but the likelihood of the thing snapping seemed too high

It's not so much that the thing will snap, in fact this was the suggestion that came with the instructions, but in my experience bending the tail tends to end up bending the entire length with a shallow curve which then causes the buffer to bind. My preferred method now is to use the plastic sheath from some fine wire pushed on to the tail and the minutest drop of superglue apllied to it's rear. A piece of plasticard of suitable thickness with a notch cut in it serves to space the buffer heads from the shanks during this process. As with all modelling there is no right way, just do what sorks for you :-)

Tony Comber

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David B
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby David B » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:54 am

ICollett wrote:Drilled out the Ratio plastic buffer body with a 1mm bit to take an Alan Gibson steel head and spring . . . . I had considered bending over the thin steel shaft to keep the buffer head at the right distance from the body, and stop it falling out, but the likelihood of the thing snapping seemed too high so a short bearing and some glue seemed a safer option.


I have successfully made sprung buffers this way, bending the back over. The spring, being the width of the hole, prevents the tail bending and I have not experienced the problem Tony mentions. The act of bending the back, however, tends to draw the buffer head in so I use some scrap brass made up to a suitable thickness with a slot to go behind the buffer head and act as a spacer whilst doing the bending. I fit the buffer head once the model is painted, though I test it before then.

However, I have only used the MJT buffer heads and white metal buffer housings, either those that come with the kit or from ABS. I cut the heads off, drill the housing out with a 1mm bit bit only as far as the base plate (see why in the next paragraph). I then use a pin vice to drill the rest of the way 0.5mm with a piece of 1mm tube over the bit to keep it central in the hole. I have drilled the 1mm hole too far a couple of times in which case I soldered a small piece of scrap brass over the back once the buffer housing has been fixed in place, drilled the 0.5mm hole and carried on as before. I use a drill press for the 1mm hole but you will break 0.5mm bits if you use a power drill (the white metal grips the bit and it snaps), hence the pin vice.

When I use Bill Bedford's sprung units, the space between them and the back of the buffer can be small so I have had to reduce the stump that goes through the buffer beam which is why I only drill as far as the base plate. In these cases I have also needed to shorten the 1mm part of the buffer behind the head in order to get the travel, which requires patience and a delicate touch! If you can have a longer stump, you can drill the 1mm hole deeper but be careful not to go too far or the spring will not do it's job properly.

The attached images might help explain a bit better.

David

buffer_7919r.jpg
buffer_7919r.jpg (127.32 KiB) Viewed 4243 times

IMG_7918r.jpg
IMG_7918r.jpg (183.61 KiB) Viewed 4243 times

billbedford
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby billbedford » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Of course if you shorten the spring, you make it stiffer.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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Will L
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Will L » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:52 pm

In the search for the simplest possible method of springing buffers, plastic or white metal, may I suggest it is preferable to drill right through 0.5mm first. You will find it is quite practical do this by hand with a drill in a pin vice(for methods see below). So long as this first hole is accurately centred at the business end of the buffer body, if the drill wonders a bit by the time you reach the other end it doesn't matter, the only thing that suffers is your pride. Anyway I've never yet failed to go all the way down the shank of a white metal casting. You then drill out 1mm but only as deep as need be for the spring to fully compressed with the back of the buffer face just in contact with the body. The 1mm drill will follow the line of the 0.5 drill so you can do that by hand with a pin chuck too ,and you can check if the correct death has been reached as you go along.

When it come to bending over the end of the buffer tail, having a spacer betwixt head and body while you make the bend is good idea, as it ensures consistent results. I use flat nosed pliers to make the bend and the buffer head will end up set the spacer thickness plus the thickness of the pliers nose from the buffer body. So the spacer doesn't need to be too thick. Having never worried about it, I found bending over the tail does not break it. You can straiten remove, refit and re-bend several times more if need be. Nor have I ever had one curve and jam as Tony suggest, probably because it is supported in the 0.5mm hole?

When drilling a new buffer body before it is fitted to the vehicle, hold the buffer shank in another pin chuck. If you hold a pin chuck in each hand and drill the hole by revolving them in opposite directions, you will have no difficulty in judging if you're drilling strait(enough) down the middle. Actually I do them quite happily by holding the buffer body in my fingers but using the second pin chuck does improve the accuracy and tends to prevent sacrifices to the Great Carpet God

To covert an existing rigid buffer already fitted to the vehicle, trim the buffer shank off flush with the back of the buffer beam and drill away happy in the knowledge that there is no side to break out of if you don't drill quite strait enough.

Will

Edited for spelling
Last edited by Will L on Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David B
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby David B » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:04 pm

Will L wrote:In the search for the simplest possible method of springing buffers, may I suggest it is preferable to drill right through 0.5mm first.


A good idea, Will - I had not thought of doing this - and holding the buffer in a second pin vice.

I do find I have to withdraw the 0.5mm bit frequently to clear the (white metal) swarf, even with a brand new bit. It is the difficulty with this swarf clearance that binds the bit and is guaranteed to break the bit if you try to use a power drill. A 1mm bit does clear the swarf in a drill but anything smaller is asking for trouble and a bit broken off inside your piece of work takes some rectifying.

David

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Will L
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Will L » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:31 pm

davidb wrote:...I do find I have to withdraw the 0.5mm bit frequently to clear the (white metal) swarf, even with a brand new bit.


That is true, occasionally you can produce a satisfyingly long pieces of swarf, al least while the fluted section of the drill is longer than the depth of the hole, but the norm is little bits that need removing every little while. A bit of lubrication helps, so dip the drill in a light oil (polite households) or spit (what I do).

Will

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ICollett
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby ICollett » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:39 pm

shipbadger wrote:My preferred method now is to use the plastic sheath from some fine wire pushed on to the tail and the minutest drop of superglue apllied to it's rear. A piece of plasticard of suitable thickness with a notch cut in it serves to space the buffer heads from the shanks during this process. As with all modelling there is no right way, just do what sorks for you :-)

Tony Comber


I like it, simple, elegant, inexpensive and reversible, for me that's the definition of good engineering. It also reminds me that I took up a length of redundant telephone cable the other week thinking "this will come in handy".

Philip Hall
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:17 pm

I usually drill right through the buffer 1mm, then trim off the shank so it is flush with the back of the buffer beam, either before or after fixing to the beam. The head is located with a 6mm x 2mm strip of 020" styrene with a 0.5mm hole at one end, glued to the back of the beam. This is John Hayes' method, as described on P20 of his Wild Swan wagon book, and, as he says. this means that you can waggle the head around until it sits nice and true in the shank. Securing the head is by the cable sleeve method.

This saves on drill bits, as 1mm is nowhere as fragile as 0.5mm, and also introduces the possibility of using the lathe to drill the holes. I am about to try this on some LMS buffers for a SR Utility Van, but I might also try turning the lathe by hand so as to take it easy.

Philip

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jjnewitt
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby jjnewitt » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:35 pm

Will L wrote:In the search for the simplest possible method of springing buffers, plastic or white metal, may I suggest it is preferable to drill right through 0.5mm first. You will find it is quite practical do this by hand with a drill in a pin vice(for methods see below). So long as this first hole is accurately centred at the business end of the buffer body, if the drill wonders a bit by the time you reach the other end it doesn't matter, the only thing that suffers is your pride.


I use to do this but gave up as I found the drill bit wandering all over the place. Possibly a combination of blunt drill bits and Dave Franks castings which seem to be a bit harder than other whitemetal buffers I've used before. Of course if the first hole wanders then subsequent ones will be at an angle and so will the buffer head which looks very odd if nothing else. I now do what David has illustrated above using a 1mm drill and then doing the last part with a 0.5mm drill using a short length of 0.5mm I.D. 1mm O.D. tubing as a guide. Results are very good and the buffer heads are square to the buffer barrel as they should be. Using another pin vice to hold the buffer is a very good idea and makes life easier. As for securing the buffer heads I find a short length of cable tubing and superglue works. I think I got this from John Hayes and his 4mm coal wagon book. I don't like the idea of bending the tails of buffer heads. Too easy to get it wrong, not so easy to correct.

Justin

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dcockling
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby dcockling » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:13 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Mark Tatlow wrote:
Wot; more importantly is sitting on the work bench...........?

You've turned haven't you Paul?


<whistles innocently> No...

This has been in progress for a little while. It's also my entry for the 2013 CHEAG Spot-on-ish Challenge.

<Rolf> Can you guess what it is yet? </Rolf>


Hi Paul,

GER Little Sharpie 2-4-0?

Danny

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ICollett
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Re: Starting From Scratch - SGW meets Inglenook

Postby ICollett » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:03 am

Will L wrote:In the search for the simplest possible method of springing buffers, plastic or white metal, may I suggest it is preferable to drill right through 0.5mm first.


Actually I wasn't complete in my description, I started with a 0.5mm pilot and followed with the 1mm bit. As all my micro-drills are on a 2.33mm shank it was actually easier to drill by gently rolling buffer beam and drill bit between my fingers with no force behind either element, just letting the spiral pull the bit into the plastic. On the 'elf & safety front, while I don't mind a 'nip' from the tip from a 0.5mm bit (I play guitar so my left hand finger tips are pretty thick skinned) still I don't fancy an injection of plastic or white metal swarf so use of a pin chuck to hold the work-piece would be recommended.

While following the 0.5mm hole with a shorter 1mm hole would appear to remove the need for the bearing behind the buffer, drilling the 0.5mm hole destroyed the positioning stub on the bottom of the buffer body, so a long bearing was still required in the buffer beam to give a snug fit to the shaft from the buffer head. Unfortunately the telephone cable insulation was a little too big to fit snugly over the buffer shaft - so I used the insulation sideways to capture the shaft and a little dab of super-glue.

Ratio Buffer sans Head.jpg
Headless Ratio buffer from the kit


Buffer Body  drilled through 0-5mm.jpg
Drilled through with 0.5mm bit


Ratio Buffer with Steel Head.jpg
Ratio buffer with steel head


Buffer Beam Front.jpg
The sprung buffers from the front NB: Buffer bodies not yet glued to the beam.


Buffer Beam Rear.jpg
And from the rear - the bearing looks smarter in the end stop position - but then who will see it?


You'll have to trust me that the springing actually works - but it does.

Only snag now is that one of the remaining two buffer bodies went AWOL and refuses to come out of hiding. I need to rig a 'Jeweller's Apron' from the bottom of my work table to capture small parts leaping for freedom. It's also quite noticeable that the Ratio buffer only has 2 ribs while the vehicles appearing in Essery's plates have 4 ribs - so it looks like a case of buying replacements anyway - the B0004 from Lanarkshire Supplies appears a more accurate representation.


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