Fovant Military Camp Railway

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jayell

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby jayell » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:52 pm

chrisyates wrote:I source the aluminium tube from Metals4U; see: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/aluminium-box ... oducts.asp. It comes in a few days and is reasonably priced. If the legs can be contained at 900mm high or less, then a good economical source of straight-grained, and reasonably lightweight, hardwood is to use Wickes balusters (actually made by Richard Burbidge) - the last time I checked they were around £4 something each, and I think they are usually hemlock. However they involve quite a lot more work to assemble in to useful leg assemblies. Robin Whittle's model of Barrow Road Shed uses them, if you have seen that on display.


Hi Chris. many thanks for the link to aluminium tubing as I think I will opt to use that rather than the balusters, I think 1.5" square 16 guage tube will be strong enough for 42" high legs(but will look at cost of using 2" square) .

I can also get flat aluminium bar from them, just need to work out how long they need to be, so will have to make a scale drawing of the support frame, when we get back from a couple of days 'dog sitting' in Dorchester, to work out how much I need to buy, I'm guessing I'll need to buy 4 x 3 metre lengths.

I have loads of self-tapping screws that can be used for fixing ply cross-bars to the legs. I used to have tapped inserts that pushed into holes in the metal tubing which expanded and were locked in place when a screw was put into them, but doubt if I'll be able to find them now as I dumped far too much useful stuff when clearing out my workshop several years ago, but these will do a similar job:-
http://www.rivetwise.co.uk/rivets/rivet ... ell-nut-44

I bought a couple of folding trestles today so I can put some scaffold planks across them to make a long enough flat table to assemble the base frame on. The piece of kitchen worktop it is currently sitting on in the photo isn't long enough and worse it isn't flat.

At last I am firming up my ideas for the design of the baseboard part of the layout and once that is put together I can get on with some track laying. I have given up on the idea of making turnouts/catch points anywhere but 'in situ' so need the baseboard to build them on. Am going to use 6mm (or thereabouts) ply with 1/8" cork trackbed on top of that.

John

Apologies Mike for hi-jacking your Fovant thread.
Last edited by jayell on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Natalie Graham

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Natalie Graham » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 pm

johnlewis wrote:The piece of kitchen worktop it is currently sitting on in the photo isn't long enough


The other day I measured the piece of nice quality 9mm ply that was used by the previous owners as a worktop in the kitchen I am currently stripping out in my cottage: Exactly 4' 8 1/2" long. :D Guess what my baseboard is going to be made out of. :lol:

jayell

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby jayell » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:15 pm

Natalie Graham wrote:The other day I measured the piece of nice quality 9mm ply that was used by the previous owners as a worktop in the kitchen I am currently stripping out in my cottage: Exactly 4' 8 1/2" long. :D Guess what my baseboard is going to be made out of. :lol:


I tried to fit my diorama into the constraints of the 'SGW' but I need a clear 72 inches as I don't want to shorten the loop from a close to true scale length.

John

Terry Bendall
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:37 am

johnlewis wrote:I don't want to have to buy a circular saw just to cut them.


You can always cut it by hand. :) A sharp hand saw should not take long. Most specialised timber yards will cut for you, but usually charge after doing the first one. Perssonally i would go that bit further to get good birch ply than risk using what is sold in the DIY shop. The baseboard has to be good otherwise everything else is wasted and there are numerous tales of those who have skimped on the materials or design and the baseboard and have lived to regret it. For me nothing less than 12mm birch ply will do.

johnlewis wrote:I think 1.5" square 16 guage tube will be strong enough for 42" high legs(but will look at cost of using 2" square) .


In my view John a bit on the large size. I would go for 25mm square but each to his own.

Terry Bendall

jayell

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby jayell » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:28 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
johnlewis wrote:I think 1.5" square 16 guage tube will be strong enough for 42" high legs(but will look at cost of using 2" square) .

In my view John a bit on the large size. I would go for 25mm square but each to his own.


I thought 1" square tube would be OK in steel but not in aluminium but if experience says it is stiff enough I am happy enough to use it - certainly a good bit cheaper.

Thanks Terry

John

mikeg

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby mikeg » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi All - I say all because it seems I have a lot of catching up to do on this thread and also I can now show my 'scheme' to make things easier at the layout build stage.

In no particular order therefore - Chris - I agree that I may have overdone the holes bit and next baseboard will have less, this one turned out to be not as light as I though but still very manageable but I had not taking into consideration the stifness that will also be introduced by the actual trackbed itself. This board will probably be demoted to the next board along which has only a very narrow central trackbed. Like John my intention is to use 6mm ply and cork.

I shall make the next 2 boards with less cross ribs - one is the fiddle yard so will be fully covered by ply and the other will be the replacement for the one already made which also has a large expanse of ply trackbed. The thing I find difficult is the slots where the diagonals meet in the middle. I have backed them up with triangular(ish) pieces for strength.

The following series of pictures shows how I have finished my board ends (as pairs of course)
baseboard 003 (Medium).jpg
baseboard 003 (Medium).jpg (60.12 KiB) Viewed 5983 times
This shows the usual pattern makers dowels and also the insert nuts (M6) that I refer to earlier so that adjoining boards can be joined by a bolt and electric screwdriver. The modification I have also introduced is the centrally placed inset which is similar to a dowel but is home made and has a half inch thread up the middle. I am fitting one of these to each board end. Why - well the height of the trackbed is 50" nominally and as someone at NEEAG pointed out this is not an easy height to work on. Underneath work also gives rise to backache. To solve these issues I schemed that if i put a spindle in the central boss I could perhaps arrange a better working height etc.
baseboard 004 (Medium).jpg
baseboard 004 (Medium).jpg (51.51 KiB) Viewed 5983 times


This shows the spindle which is 3/4" dia and I can fit one at each end as and when I need them. Like John I came across a bargain pair of builders type trestles (Screwfix) discount day was £16(ish) each and would prove ideal in hedge cutting and conservatory roof cleaning duties (well that's what the wife thinks!) - They are nicely height adjustable and my scheme was to fit a plummer block type fitting to each end so I could put the board where I wanted height wise to a comfortable working height. It was also therefore an easy step to make one block have a clamp bolt so that I could rotate the board to work on the top or underneath as I wanted.
baseboard 001 (Medium).jpg
baseboard 001 (Medium).jpg (108.36 KiB) Viewed 5983 times


Hopefuly this shows the end result. The board is half tilted to show the capability of this system. All I have to do is fit an insert into every board end and then I can put whichever one is work in progress by scewing in the spindles to each end. All the bits by the way have come from the scrap bin, however I do have a lathe to help with manufacture.
baseboard 002 (Medium).jpg
baseboard 002 (Medium).jpg (91.68 KiB) Viewed 5983 times


This shows the clamp end arrangement (Old machinery handle from the come-in-handy heap) -its one of those that lifts and allows you to put the handle where you want once its clamped. I put the board into the trestles single handed for the photos so it seems to be user friendly in actual use.

Finally - for now- many thanks for all who are taking an interest in this project. I will post more as things progress

Terry Bendall
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:48 am

mikeg wrote:It was also therefore an easy step to make one block have a clamp bolt so that I could rotate the board to work on the top or underneath as I wanted.


That is a very clever idea Mike. The model engineering fraternity often do something similar for turning over the chassis of a live steam loco, especially in the larger scales. The builders' type trestles are often seen under layouts at exhibitions and they are certainly very good for the purpose although they may take excessive space in the vehicle. The height adjustment means that they can be raised up for working underneath or for viewing, or lowered for working on the top surface.

Terry Bendall

chrisyates
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby chrisyates » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Hi, John

1" square tube is probably strong enough for what you want, but it is worth thinking about the mechanics of using rectangular tube: I use 11/2" x 1", with the wide side across the boards. The benefit is that you can space the fixing screws (self-tappers) for ply cross-members that bit further apart and it makes the whole leg construction stiffer in the transverse direction, which is exactly where you want the strength. Negligible difference in price.

I agree with Terry Bendalls' comments about not stinting on ply - see my earlier posting. However, I prefer to laminate two layers of thinner ply as this can usually overcome any natural tendency of a single layer of thicker ply to warp. However flat a new sheet of ply is when bought, once it is cut up into strips, some of them will tend to warp as a result of the stresses introduced in the sheet during manufacture finding it easier to escape! It's more work, but the outcome is more controlled.

Best regards,

CHRIS

jayell

Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby jayell » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:25 am

Thanks Chris

I was about to order some 1" square yesterday but couldn't remember my paypal password :( , so cleared the order and will look at getting the rectangular section instead.

Not sure about laminating two thinner ply panels for the baseboard top. I found that Dorchester Timber stock birch ply, we are going into town later today so could call in and see what they have in stock and out what they would charge for cutting panels to size. My son in law has a transit type van so can get him to collect it for me rather than putting in on the roof of my car.

It looks like I'm not going to be able to put off making a start on the layout much longer ;)

John

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:10 am

John,

if you have a local kitchen manufacturer (I use Ipswich Plastics http://www.ipswichplastics.co.uk/home ), you may find that they can supply decent ply cut as required, as it's what they do to manufacture bespoke kitchens.

Jol

chrisyates
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby chrisyates » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:18 am

Hi, John

When ordering ply, one of the key words in the spec is "throughout", as in "birch throughout". This means that knots and any other imperfections have been stamped out and replaced with an infill. These are usually just visible on the surface layers, and are not a problem for baseboard joinery. Importantly, the same process is done for all the component laminations, and this is key. If you just specify birch ply, you will get birch-faced ply with any sort of inferior stuff in the inner layers including blemishes and gaps, which you do not want in thin sheet such as we use.

Specifying "birch throughout" doesn't add appreciably to the cost, but does result in a significantly better baseboard. It is widely used in the furniture and cabinet industry for cupboard etc carcases, but you probably won't find it in DIY sheds or home improvement centres.

Ply specs are widely misunderstood. For example, "marine ply" is often used to imply top quality. It may be, but all it actually means is that waterproof glue has been used, and it doesn't imply anything about the quality of the surface laminations, or indeed, the sub-layers. The things we learn about when all we really want to do is play trains....

Alan Turner
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Alan Turner » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:04 pm

All plywood is WBP (water and boil proof) these days or should be.

The designation "Marine Ply" means that it has hardwood veneers through out and not just the two surface veneers.

regards

Alan

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Tim V
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Re: Fovant Military Camp Railway

Postby Tim V » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:01 pm

I use a local boat builder timber merchant.

http://www.robbins.co.uk/

You can go far better specified than Birch throughout, just take out a mortgage....
Tim V
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