Guidelines for the SGW

A forum for participants in the Standard Gauge Workbench.
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Flymo748
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Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:03 pm

Please do read this guidance for those taking part in the Standard Gauge Workbench.

"The Scalefour Society is pleased to announce a new initiative for members. This will be to build a small layout where the scenic section does not exceed the dimension of UK Standard Gauge (four feet eight and one half inches) in length. These notes give the framework of the initiative.

Concept

1. The idea of the SGW is to encourage those Society members that are new to finescale modelling, or have never completed a layout previously to build a layout to P4 standards. It may also act as a refresher for those established members that wish to undertake a smaller piece of modelling.

2. The layout could be designed for either home or exhibition use.

3. Help and advice towards participants will be encouraged with the aim of making it a valuable experience for all participating.

Participation

4. Participation in the SGW by Society members is encouraged through the Society Forum and through publication of items in Scalefour News.

5. The Society will establish a dedicated area on the Society Forum for members to share and discuss their progress in designing and building their layout.

6. If desired, each participant will have a workbench thread of their own on the Forum within this area made available to them for them to post content, pictures and questions.

Layout design criteria

7. The SGW invites modellers to design and build a layout built using P4 standards of track and wheels.
• The layout can represent any period of railway history.
• The layout must be built to a scale of 4mm to one foot.
• Any locomotive or item of rolling stock must be fitted with wheels to P4 standards and be capable of running on track to a gauge of 18.83mm or as described below.
• Models of prototypes designed to run on track narrower or wider than the standard prototype gauge of 4 feet 8 ½ inches will be accepted provided that wheels and track are to the relevant P4 standards.

8. The maximum length of the visible section of the layout may be 4’8½”.

9. The minimum length of the visible section of the layout may be 1200mm. This enables the use of standard 1200 x 500mm extruded polystyrene insulation boards. These may be obtained from DIY superstores.

10. There is no minimum or maximum depth restriction on the visible section of the layout. Any shape of baseboard(s) can be used.

11. The fiddle yard(s) may be of any length or depth.

12. In order to give operational and visual interest, as well as encouraging the development of P4 modelling skills each participating layout must contain at least two working points. Trap or catch points are not counted as working points.

13. The production of interesting, unusual or innovative layouts is strongly encouraged.

Entrants

14. Layouts may be the work of individuals, informal groups, clubs or area groups of the Scalefour Society.

15. If the layout is intended for exhibition (at Scaleforum or elsewhere) the completed layout and all ancillary items, including rolling stock, has to be portable and capable of being transported to exhibitions by a private car or public transport and be erected and operated by a maximum of two people. This is to encourage the economical appearance of layouts promoting finescale modelling.

Recognition and Publicity

16. This initiative is not a Challenge or Competition of the Scalefour Society and no judging will take place. No prizes will be awarded. However recognition may be given to layouts when they are completed to the owner’s satisfaction in the form of a certificate or other token.

17. The Scalefour Society may invite certain layouts, as either finished layouts or as work-in-progress, to be shown as part of Scaleforum 2014 and/or Scalefour North 2015 or any subsequent events. The layouts and exhibitors will be treated as normal invited exhibitors.

18. The Scalefour Society may wish to publicise the progress of the SGW in its own publications or through the model railway press. This may include details of layouts, descriptions submitted or photographs of work in progress. This material may be taken from the Society Forum or submissions to Scalefour News as appropriate. Credit to the originator will be given wherever possible.

Administration

19. As this is an initiative to encourage modelling to the interests of participants and not a competition, formality is not expected and indeed will be discouraged.

20. If members have any questions regarding the SGW itself (e.g. regarding News articles or Forum administration) then they are invited to contact either:
• Ian Everett (SGW@scalefour.org) or
• Paul Willis (depchairman@scalefour.org)
or to ask on the relevant part of the Society Forum."

However more important than any of this is to enjoy your modelling and have fun!

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman

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Noel
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Noel » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:02 am

Paul

each participating layout must contain at least two working points


Given the work involved it would seem reasonable to regard one three-way point or one slip [single or double] as the equivalent of two points. It may not be relevant in the end, but saving space in the design may be important to some participants. Do you agree, please?

Noel
Regards
Noel

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Ian Everett
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Ian Everett » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:17 am

This all started when I posted the following on a thread started by Terry Benthall, with the title “What would encourage you to go the Scaleforum?”

“The 1883 challenge produced a multitude of miniature layouts (and spawned an enormous one - Burntisland). I wonder whether another challenge, but to build really tiny layouts, might be worthwhile?

Or would that just confirm the public's perception that all P4 layouts are small? We know that is not true as there are some giants being built out there but many don't get to see the open road. My view is that building a really small layout is really worthwhile and enjoyable - the challenges faced require much ingenuity to overcome and real progress is made very quickly and lots of new techniques are learnt along the way, which can be applied to later, bigger projects. If designed carefully, the original acorn can develop into a mighty oak.

How about a four square foot challenge?”

Moral of the tale - never suggest anything when members of the Committee are around. They might think you have volunteered to do it!

So - here we go!

The idea has been refined to be a 4‘8.5” workbench. This is the maximum length of the scenic section, but fiddle yards can be added to either end.

We would love to see some really imaginative ideas. Such a small area does not limit you to a small industrial location. Far from it. You could build 370 feet of the East Coast Main Line if you wanted, although getting an HST to fit might be a problem.

Iain Rice’s “bitsa” concept - modelling just part (preferably the most interesting part) of a station, goods yard or loco depot is the key. If done cleverly, not only can this be an attractive scene in its own right but could be the first step to building a much larger layout.

I have now built three such small layouts - Clecklewyke, Humber Dock and Royston Vasey. The latter two were just one-off projects with no idea of re-use as part of a bigger layout but Clecklewyke was always conceived as part of a much larger project - the Bradford North Western branch - and will be shown with its next section, Mill Gill viaduct, at Scalefour North next year.

For the Standard Gauge Workbench I am mulling over three plans which are possibilities and I will post about at least one of them within a day or so but for the moment it’s over to you. Let’s see what ideas you have!
Last edited by Ian Everett on Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Flymo748
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:18 am

Noel wrote:Paul

each participating layout must contain at least two working points


Given the work involved it would seem reasonable to regard one three-way point or one slip [single or double] as the equivalent of two points. It may not be relevant in the end, but saving space in the design may be important to some participants. Do you agree, please?

Noel


Hi Noel,

As this isn't a competition (or challenge) then it doesn't really matter what I/we think really ;-)

However what you say makes perfect sense. The idea is to encourage participation, not create some stifling bureaucracy. So go for it...

As an aside, many years ago the very first piece of 18.83mm gauge trackwork that I built was a double slip on copperclad sleepers. It was non-functioning, in the sense that I never cut in the insulating gaps, or wired it up. But it looked good, with all the close clearances that attracted me to P4 in the first place, and most importantly it was an enormous confidence boost that whenever I looked at it, I knew that I could actually do this finescale lark :-)

You have to try these things, and be prepared to be surprised at how much you can achieve.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Ian Everett
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Ian Everett » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:24 am

Noel wrote:Paul

each participating layout must contain at least two working points


Given the work involved it would seem reasonable to regard one three-way point or one slip [single or double] as the equivalent of two points. It may not be relevant in the end, but saving space in the design may be important to some participants. Do you agree, please?

Noel


I would agree with that and suggest that a working turntable in the visible portion with at least three connected lines might also qualify - it is, after all a device to switch locos from one track to another (as well as turn them round). (And one of my ideas has no points but does have a turntable, so I have to declare an interest.)

Ian

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:35 pm

Ian,

please correct the spelling in the title of your thread on RMweb, the last thing we need is to give some of the Luddites reason to poke fun.

And is it a workbench (as on here) or a workshop (as on RMweb)?

Jol

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Ian Everett
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Ian Everett » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:09 pm

Jol Wilkinson wrote:And is it a workbench (as on here) or a workshop (as on RMweb)?

Jol


or challenge?!

mea culpa

It's a workbench and I'll edit out any reference by me of workshops or challenges.

Thanks, Jol

dave_long
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby dave_long » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:24 pm

I don't know, a worlshop sounds interesting.
I shall ponder this idea as I feel I'm well inside the group of people this is aimed at. A member for several years but only have a plinth of P4 track a foot long.

Dave

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David B
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby David B » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:28 pm

dave_long wrote:I shall ponder this idea as I feel I'm well inside the group of people this is aimed at. A member for several years but only have a plinth of P4 track a foot long.


Me too, though my plinth is bigger than yours. Mine's 18" long!

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Flymo748
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:27 pm

dave_long wrote:I don't know, a worlshop sounds interesting.
I shall ponder this idea as I feel I'm well inside the group of people this is aimed at. A member for several years but only have a plinth of P4 track a foot long.

Dave

Hi Dave,

You make a good point. As this initiative is intended to encourage "newcomers" to have a go at making a small layout, the Committee will certainly be open to any sort of event or facility to help.

I have been talking only this week with the organisers of the Missenden modelling weekends http://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/ about developing some form of "introduction to finescale" group within future courses. Also, the Committee has been trying to arrange a separate weekend for modellers with one of the established names in the hobby. Unfortunately so far we have been unable to achieve mutually satisfactory dates.

In the short term, Missenden in the autumn is a possibility, if you fancy it. Barry Norman runs a great session on scenics, or you could spend 48 hours with Norman Solomon which surely will have all of the track completed (I don't jest, I nearly did something similar this spring).

At the other end of the scale, the Area Group that I am part of (CHEAG) has continued to organise small workshops where members come together. For example, see here: http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=1835

However if you do have any suggestions for anything that the Society could do, then please drop a line to me or any other Committee members.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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LesGros
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby LesGros » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:04 pm

davidb wrote:
dave_long wrote:I shall ponder this idea as I feel I'm well inside the group of people this is aimed at. A member for several years but only have a plinth of P4 track a foot long.


Me too, though my plinth is bigger than yours. Mine's 18" long!


I trutht that it ith a hanthom plinth...
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

dave_long
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby dave_long » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:13 pm

Thanks for offers of help and courses.

I have built several layouts in the past, including hand built track (00-sf) but have been trying to find my way back from the dark side that is US ho. I'm part of the wmag but haven't been for a while for one reason and another.

I've desperately been trying to find something that meets my expectations for a P4 layout and while I've spent time chatting with JSW about a Stechford layout but I've decided to make that my future big project of which I'm not ready to start.

So being constrained by someone else's set limits makes things easier for me to make a decision on what can be done/achieved. Fingers crossed!

Dave

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David B
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby David B » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:21 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
I have been talking only this week with the organisers of the Missenden modelling weekends http://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/ about developing some form of "introduction to finescale" group within future courses. Also, the Committee has been trying to arrange a separate weekend for modellers with one of the established names in the hobby. Unfortunately so far we have been unable to achieve mutually satisfactory dates.

In the short term, Missenden in the autumn is a possibility, if you fancy it. Barry Norman runs a great session on scenics, or you could spend 48 hours with Norman Solomon which surely will have all of the track completed (I don't jest, I nearly did something similar this spring).


As one of those involved with the organization of the Missenden gatherings, I should point out that Norman Solomon is NOT at the Autumn weekend this October but IS at the gathering 21-23 March 2014. As ever, Missenden courses are the place to learn new skills and improve existing ones with excellent, experienced tutors. (Details on the Missenden website)

David

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Flymo748
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 pm

davidb wrote:As one of those involved with the organization of the Missenden gatherings, I should point out that Norman Solomon is NOT at the Autumn weekend this October but IS at the gathering 21-23 March 2014. As ever, Missenden courses are the place to learn new skills and improve existing ones with excellent, experienced tutors. (Details on the Missenden website)


Hi David,

apologies for the mix-up. I should have checked the tutors on the website for the Authumn Weekend. For completeness, the programme is at http://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/autumn.html.

I'll probably be ambling into the 4mm loco building group myself...

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Flymo748
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:38 pm

dave_long wrote:I've desperately been trying to find something that meets my expectations for a P4 layout and while I've spent time chatting with JSW about a Stechford layout but I've decided to make that my future big project of which I'm not ready to start.

So being constrained by someone else's set limits makes things easier for me to make a decision on what can be done/achieved. Fingers crossed!

Fingers crossed for you...

Oddly enough, the setting of constraints like this *does* act to focus the mind and is a good reason for writing them. Even if we aren't going to look at them _too_ closely ;-)

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Terry Bendall
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:45 am

davidb wrote: I should point out that Norman Solomon is NOT at the Autumn weekend this October but IS at the gathering 21-23 March 2014.


Anyone who comes to Scaleforum will be able to pick Norman's brains and have the advantage of his many years of experience in track building since he will be one of the demonstrators at Scaleforum on September 28th/29th in Aylesbury. For those who want to use flat bottom turnouts and track, Colin Craig will also be at the show and will have his kits available to sell. Of course the other demonstrators and help desks will also be able to give lots of advice to anyone contemplating taking part in the SGW. The full list of the show's content can be found on the Society's web site.

Terry Bendall

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Martin Wynne » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:28 am

Flymo748 wrote:12. In order to give operational and visual interest, as well as encouraging the development of P4 modelling skills each participating layout must contain at least two working points. Trap or catch points are not counted as working points.

Hi Paul,

You need to clarify this for modellers outside the UK. It is only in the UK that modellers refer to a turnout as a point. For most of the world, modellers understand a "point" to have its proper railway meaning of a single moving switch blade. Two such linked by a stretcher bar make a "set of points" or "pair of points" or "switch", and a switch connected to a common crossing makes a turnout.

A 3-way tandem turnout contains 2 switches (4 points).

A single-slip with fixed K-crossings contains 2 switches (4 points).

A double-slip with fixed K-crossings contains 4 switches (8 points).

I suggest you amend the rule to require two turnouts, or one tandem, or one slip.

regards,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

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Ian Everett
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Ian Everett » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:20 pm

Hi to all SGWers.

EditorJames has asked me for an article on the progress of the SGW for Snooze. My initial response was - after Iain Rice's article in Snooze 185 - "follow that"!

However, Iain has called me "irrepressible" in two of his publications, so I must have a bash! I therefore wonder if participants could please post details of your latest progress here and send me publishable quality pictures of your work (i.e. better than the 2Mb limit I think is imposed on pictures on Scalefour Forum). I can be contacted at SGW@scalefour.org or 01969 650180.

We will also be having a display of SGW progress and ideas at Scalefour North so if there is anything you want to "show off" do contact me to discuss it.

Ian Everett

Terry Bendall
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Re: Guidelines for the SGW

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:12 am

Ian Everett wrote:We will also be having a display of SGW progress and ideas at Scalefour North so if there is anything you want to "show off" do contact me to discuss it.


And for those who are unable to get to Scalefour North, or who may not yet have made a great deal of progress, we can do the same thing at Scaleforum on September 27th/28th just as long as there are not too many since there are lots of other things that we need to fit in.

Terry Bendall


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