challenges of old locos

andrewnummelin
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challenges of old locos

Postby andrewnummelin » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:46 pm

At the moment there's not much of this on the bench, just some Sharman wheels bought decades ago, a bit of Broad Gauge Society rail and a few drawings. I had a diagram and photo of a GWR 2-4-0WT 1302 (ex Monmouthshire Railway & Canal Co) and I thought it would make a nice model. Recently I found on the new HMRS web site that a general arrangement drawing had become available so I acquired a copy. Now the fun has really begun!
Screenshot 2022-01-16 131026.jpg

The tyre profiles look crudely drawn, but that may not be the case...
Also there were drawings of a MRCC 0-6-0 and tender and these show the same profile. What's more, the back to back measurements are shown as 4'4 3/8".

So were these wheels intended to run on plateways as well as edge rails? (The MRCC did for a time have mixed track.)
How would a model traverse a P4 turnout?
Would this profile actually function on a plateway? (According to Michael Lewis in his book on the SIrhowy Tramroad special wheels to run on both edge rail and plateway had to have very deep flanges to negotiate crossings.)

Some fun in track building and wheel turning is on the horizon! (Any ideas how to make switches and crossings in mixed edge and plateway track?)

And just to add to the fun, extra brake blocks are needed for the tender as it seems to have had separate ones for the tread and flange!!!
Screenshot 2022-01-16 134116.jpg
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Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

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Tim V
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby Tim V » Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:58 pm

Well, of course, I've built a plateway, but it's set much earlier.

There is so little information available, I've had to rely on information from other railways - the nearest I've got to it is the Hay & Kington Railways, same engineer, about the same date.

As for locos, mine did try an engine - 1826, but as usual it broke the rails.

Have you tried National Museum of Wales?
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

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grovenor-2685
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:43 pm

andrewnummelin wrote:So were these wheels intended to run on plateways as well as edge rails? (The MRCC did for a time have mixed track.)
The shape of the flange would suggest it could run on a suitably gauged plateway.
How would a model traverse a P4 turnout?
Only if you built it to the correct standard I would think.
Would this profile actually function on a plateway? (According to Michael Lewis in his book on the SIrhowy Tramroad special wheels to run on both edge rail and plateway had to have very deep flanges to negotiate crossings.)

I have not seen anything on such mixed operation. The wheels with such wide flat flanges look capable of running on a plateway of appropriate gauge. Edge rail track would need wider than usual flangeways and may need flange running crossings as the treads may not be wide enough to span the gaps. Do you have any idea what was meant by mixed track? Seems relatively easy to make a wheel, as in the drawing, to run on either type of track. A much more difficult design exercise to make track capable of carrying either type of wheel.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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Tim V
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby Tim V » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:20 pm

Just had a quick look in the Sirhowy book, at the section on wheels.

Drawings of combined rails and chairs, no pictures/drawings of crossings.

I would make up some samples in plasticard and try running edge rail wheels and plateway wheels through it. First principles!

After all, there is little photographic evidence of plateway track.

These are plateway points - the train automatically takes the left hand line. Note the wheel is fully supported through the switch and crossing - just like P4 does! The stone blocks have yet to be added in the picture. Scale flanges by the way!
Canal layout (77).JPG
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Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

davebradwell
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby davebradwell » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:37 pm

While we're all guessing, the face of the flange is drawn flat - there is no angle, although there is a small root radius, so the wheel would surely be unable to traverse a curve on railed track as this flange would just climb over the rail. Might there be signs of coning on the wheel tread - perhaps the original is clearer?

The wheel construction looks interesting with spokes plus plates front and back.

You've picked a strange one here that appears to have escaped those who spend their time seeking out the strange.

DaveB

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Hardwicke
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:20 am

Tim,
Whose wagons are those?
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Tim V
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Re: challenges of old locos

Postby Tim V » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:20 pm

Hardwicke wrote:Tim,
Whose wagons are those?

Completely scratchbuilt. Should be some pictures of them on my workbench thread, complete with the proper wheels I made for them.
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)


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