PC&NR and other things.

andrewnummelin
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PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:58 pm

I've been encouraged to write up a bit on my activities and I hope in so doing I may help a few others from making the same mistakes as I have and, by going public, I may also be pushed to finish a few things - one of my "hobbies" is sitting in an armchair and thinking about how to solve some obscure modelling problem.

So here is my workbench as of this evening.
workbench01.jpg

It's a bit of a guess to decide what is the most aged - the computer, my eyesight, the half-started kits or the old boxes... But going round the modelling bits, we have a couple of Masokits Brecon & Merthyr Railway coaches, a Taff Vale coach from Trevor Charlton etches, a drawing in progress and the start of making the coupling rods for the loco. So far these have only resulted in a broken centre drill, snapped twist drill and a shattered saw blade! And my target was to finish the chassis by the end of the month......

Next on the workbench will be this:
workbench02.jpg

Thanks to help from the Forum http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2397 I've managed to get 4 ground signals working (I only burnt out 3 servos in the process) but while the board was on the bench I forgot to wire up a couple of rails..... still at least I can remove this jig-saw bit without moving any of the other boards. But thereby hangs a cautionary tale about planning... I'll post a bit about this when the board is on the bench.


Back to the heading of this topic.
In my view the PC&N is a modeller's delight - I believe it only ever owned 4 coaches, had no locomotives and no stations! It was built by the powers behind the docks in Newport who wanted to increase their exports of coal from the Rhondda and it became an isolated part of the Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks and Railway: a long name for a very short line.
The line started just south of the enormous and fascinating Taff Vale Railway station of Pontypridd and stopped short of Caerphilly on the Rhymney Railway , the goods and mineral trains, worked by the TVR originally, continued over the RR and the Brecon & Merthyr Railway and ended up at Newport, originally via the GWR but subsequently via their own line. Passenger trains over (parts of) the line were, at various times, PC&NR, ADR, RR or GWR. Once the ADR started passenger services, with fascinating railmotors and then a circus train, they stopped short of the TVR station at Pontypridd and built their own terminus that must have been one of the smallest until the current era. Do you fancy confusing people at an exhibition and running passengers trains "wrong line"? The ADR did for a time.
To see more on this fascinating line, and more modelling than I have achieved, have a look at Richard Spratt's web site http://www.penrhos.me.uk/ and his bit on RMweb http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56665-coaches-for-the-alexandra-newport-and-south-wales-docks-railway/.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:28 pm

Great to see the ground signals have been breeding! They are rather fun aren't they?

Its good to see the beginnings of the layout - and such an unusual one. Keep it up and keep us informed.
Mark Tatlow

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newport_rod
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby newport_rod » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:33 pm

Ah, so it is an ex-Mersey Rly 0-6-4T! That'll be something worth seeing. Maybe I ought to revive my plans to model Machen to give it somewhere else to run!
Keep us posted.
Rod

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:44 pm

Things are progressing too slowly - my target was to have a loco chassis completed by the end of March - but being down with a cold at least meant that the garden lost out to modelling today when I made the inner frame spacers. Now to see if I can put them together adequately square....
workbench03.JPG

You may also notice that the loco bogie and coupling rods are sitting ready in the tray - I'm not 100% happy with these but I won't replace them yet or the loco will never run.
And thinking of running, some rails and sleepers have passed through the workbench as I think I ought to have at least a bit of track ready to test the rolling stock. Track laying has never been something I have enjoyed because I have a tendency to create humps, bumps and dog legs - I've discovered a very good way of making the latter. Draw up your layout with Templot, print the templates, stick them together drop them on the baseboard, cut them out along the baseboard edges and store for a while. Then start producing bits of track on the bench and lay from opposite ends of the station and assume they will meet, properly aligned, in the middle!
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Rhobat Bryn

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Rhobat Bryn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:40 pm

Which part of the line are you thinking of modelling?

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm currently working on Glyntaff http://www.andrew.nummelin.me.uk/ADR/Glyntaff/default.asp. I was tempted by Tram Road but I didn't want to get into modelling trams and I suspected that there would have been pressure to add the TVR junction......
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:40 am

andrewnummelin wrote:Things are progressing too slowly - my target was to have a loco chassis completed by the end of March ............

The above was written at the end of April and July has now passed with the chassis still not finished! As Terry Bendall has given me a nudge I thought I ought to give a bit of a status report.
First of all I managed to produce a "banana with dog-legs" - without the aid of etched tabs and slots holding everything in alignment whilst soldering was a step too far for my skills.
workbench04.JPG
commercial jig axles aren't the solution

Dismantling completely and reassembly with a Chassis2 jig helped but things are still not perfectly aligned. Next time I will have to think of a way of solving this problem (using wire through the brake hanger support points was too flexible). Still things were acceptable enough to add the wheels, quartering of which was difficult as the GW wheel press doesn't readily work with outside cranks: I've taken a risk and not pinned wheels or cranks to the axles. The worst job was however threading the CSB wire through everything - it took several hours as there's no room to see what you are doing. You may imagine what colour the air will turn if I have to change it once the model is weighted - with brake and sanding gear installed there will be even less room to see what is going on!
workbench05.JPG
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Armchair Modeller

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Armchair Modeller » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:30 am

Whatever the problems, I am sure it will be well worth the effort when it is complete. So far, your photos suggest a very high standard of workmanship. :thumb

It is a wonderful model to choose - so different to the norm.

"Cecil Raikes", another of the same class, ran on a colliery not too far from where I live. I was once tempted to have a go at building it, but I am sure it is way beyond my own skills.

Good luck with the remainder of the build!

Just out of interest, what radius curves do you think it will go round? Have you had to improve clearances at all?

jayell

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby jayell » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:01 am

andrewnummelin wrote:I've been encouraged to write up a bit on my activities and I hope in so doing I may help a few others from making the same mistakes as I have and, by going public, I may also be pushed to finish a few things - one of my "hobbies" is sitting in an armchair and thinking about how to solve some obscure modelling problem.

So here is my workbench as of this evening.
workbench01.jpg



Hi Andrew

as a one-time 'model engineer' tool maker I am intrigued by the tool sitting to left of the bench. Is it something you made?

John

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Andy W
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Andy W » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:57 pm

Andrew, that looks wonderful! A marvellously eccentric prototype. I think some of your problems might have been easier if your outside frames had been separate, maybe as part of the footplate, rather than than being fixed with the inner chassis. Or is there a reason you did it this way? Great stuff though.
Make Worcestershire great again.
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andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote: "Cecil Raikes", another of the same class, ........

The National Museums Liverpool were kind enough to let me have a good look at the loco that is in their store. This cleared a load of questions that I had but, as normal, raised a whole lot more!
Armchair Modeller wrote:Just out of interest, what radius curves do you think it will go round? Have you had to improve clearances at all?

Very good question! I hope for 1.2m but that is just a wish. I suspect the real limitation will be how well I can arrange the bogie side control.
Thanks for the good wishes.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:20 pm

johnlewis wrote:as a one-time 'model engineer' tool maker I am intrigued by the tool sitting to left of the bench. Is it something you made?

It's a GW Models rivet press - way beyond my skills to make anything similar. Although it's not a perfect tool it is a huge help and I recommend it highly.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:54 pm

Ealing wrote:Andrew, that looks wonderful! A marvellously eccentric prototype. I think some of your problems might have been easier if your outside frames had been separate, maybe as part of the footplate, rather than than being fixed with the inner chassis. Or is there a reason you did it this way? Great stuff though.

Indeed it would be more common to do things the way you suggest but that would bring its own problems around the front end. I pondered for a long time as to where to split the model, I even considered fixing the footplate to the frames permanently! The final decision came from me being rather perverse - I'm not sure how much one will be able see between the frames when the model is finished but I wanted to keep things clear so that when the second loco is built I could fill things in if needed. I also thought that if the prototype used bearings in the outside frames, so should I: however I chickened out from putting bearings for the driven wheel in the inside frame (but I did buy them). Does anyone feel like doing a CSB calculation for such a set-up? Once I've finished the loco I'll be asking for suggestions on how to do things better next time.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

jayell

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby jayell » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:48 pm

andrewnummelin wrote:It's a GW Models rivet press - way beyond my skills to make anything similar. Although it's not a perfect tool it is a huge help and I recommend it highly.


Thanks Andrew, I have heard of the tool but never seen one before so it is nice to know what it looks like.

John

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:35 pm

The soldering iron has been put away (temporarily) and the paint brush should appear soon.... but will it be dry by the weekend?
workbench06.JPG
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Armchair Modeller

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Armchair Modeller » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:06 pm

6 months sounds pretty good for a loco like this, where no one has been before and you have had to think out every step for yourself. :thumb

It would be nice to see a photo or two of it all put together, even if it is not ready in time for Scaleforum.

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Penrhos1920
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Penrhos1920 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:45 pm

Top notch. Excellent Andrew. 1 down just 2 more to go?

What did you do for the driving wheels in the end?

Richard

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:39 pm

Penrhos1920 wrote:1 down just 2 more to go?
Richard

1 hasn't gone yet!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:43 pm

Penrhos1920 wrote:
What did you do for the driving wheels in the end?

Richard

By sheer luck, I found in the spares box a few Sharman wheels that were slightly under their nominal size.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

andrewnummelin
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:03 pm

At last I have found a bit of spare time to continue this thread.

0-6-4T No 23 did just make it to Scaleforum where there were many excellent models on display: it was very nice to see more than in recent years, let's hope that next year there are even more.
Scaleforum.jpg
Scaleforum.jpg (86.04 KiB) Viewed 11641 times



workbench07.jpg

To my dismay when I got home and looked at the photos I had taken before the show I realised that in my haste to do the final assembly the footplate on one side had not gone down properly on the frames, leaving a steam pipe hanging in mid air and the body twisted!
workbench08.jpg


A couple of weeks later it was off to Great Missenden where I learnt, amongst many other things, the basics of DCC and this loco became the first that I have fitted with a chip and it ran smoothly up and down a little bit of test track (once Tony Gee had tweaked the quartering of one crank for me). I still don't know what radius curves it will go round.... the next thing on the workbench must be a baseboard and bit of track that needs wiring so that I can at least give it a run of a few metres and a couple of curves to try.

There was not much published information available for building the model and there were inconsistencies between the published drawings however I'm grateful for was recorded, preserved and published. Knowing that a loco survived to be preserved I hoped that if I could have a look at it I might be able to answer many of the questions I had. Thanks to the kindness of Sharon Brown & especially Dale Riley at National Museums Liverpool I was able to examine and photograph Cecil Raikes http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/collections/transport/cecilraikes.aspx and indeed discover much of use in making the model; however like much research for every question answered a couple of new ones arose!

I encountered a number of problems while building the loco that were not resolved to my satisfaction, however stopping to solve them properly would have resulted in the loco not getting to Scaleforum and probably ending up like many other half finished project languishing in a box. As I intend to build another one of these locos, and another couple that look as though they may pose similar problems, I intend to start separate threads in the appropriate forums on the various topics.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Armchair Modeller

Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:35 pm

Unfortunately, I was unable to see the loco in the flesh at Scaleforum - I could only, unavoidably, manage a very brief visit on the Saturday morning.

The loco looks really great!

I particularly like the wording on the bottom of your label in the showcase :D

Terry Bendall
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:57 am

andrewnummelin wrote:0-6-4T No 23 did just make it to Scaleforum where there were many excellent models on display: it was very nice to see more than in recent years, let's hope that next year there are even more.


Yes there were many excellent models and it would be very nice to see more on display. Some people don't like competitions and there is the display case for those who would like to show what they have done, but don't want to enter a competition. Please don't think that the show case or the competitions are only for the "experts".

Terry Bendall

andrewnummelin
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PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:34 pm

I was determined not to do any more rolling stock modelling until after I had a few metres of track to test things on, and installed the things often left until last - signals. I've now reached the stage where this has been achieved so the workbench has taken on a new appearance.
bench.jpg

I've now considerably more experience with signals - especially how to break finials, either on the layout or during painting!

The newest tool is shown - apparently it will be critically important at next month's Missenden Abbey weekend when I hope to learn about the use of CAD for modeling the PC&N. I may start marking and cutting bits of wood and plastic if my eyes (or brain) get too tired of looking at a screen - hence the book.

My thanks to Steve Hewitt who I met at Scaleforum: his advice has enabled me to get one signal working more or less acceptably. The photo shows it awaiting a bit of scenic treatment around the base and placing skittles on top of the posts.
up-starter.jpg

The abrupt end of the track is to allow room for cassettes: bridge building and installation of the halt awaits the time when I can find the room to extend the layout by a metre or so.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:39 pm

All the signals were finally installed a few weeks ago, but functioning of several is very poor despite them working OK on the bench. Improvements will have to wait until after most of the scenery has been finished (next century??).
fig1.JPG

Don't copy this installation - there was room for point motor (just) but fitting the servo for the ground disc required significant surgery to the baseboard frame!
fig2.JPG

Second poor installation - having to carve out a lump of foam forming the cutting to take the signal servos, and having the wiring coming out at the back of the layout where there is no access was not a clever piece of forward planning!
fig3.JPG

fig.jpg

As I have achieved the target of running a loco from end to end of the layout I can now return to working on rolling stock and hopefully starting to use the new skills picked up at Great Missenden.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: PC&NR and other things.

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:14 am

Do like that double faced signal - they look so alien to anyone with knowledge of the railways that only goes back to the grouping era!

Have sent you a PM re the finials.
Mark Tatlow


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