"West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

[Allan Goodwillie]

Here is the continuation of the "Starters" Build a loco project.

We left off during the preparation for painting and the next step was to show how the chassis was dealt with when using the grit blasting equipment. So here we are.

Allan

[Mark Tatlow]

Where do you source the grit from Allan?

And it looks to go striaght through a basic humbrol air-brush?

[Allan Goodwillie]

Hi Mark,

The Badger grit blaster is available through many outlets. A quick browse of the internet will show that a set comes in around £33.00 - £35.00 from Shesto and others. What you get is shown here on their site.

http://www.shesto.co.uk/p1169/Badger_260-1_Mini_Sand_Blaster/product_info.html

I also illustrate the bottle of grit you get with the set below. Additional grit works out at about £5 per bottle available separately. Larger bottles are also available. I am not entirely sure that there is anything different between the average cheap airbrush spray head and the grit blaster, I have an old Badger 150 airbrush with a HD spray head and will try that at some time over the next week to see whether it will spray the grit.

Please read the instructions on the bottle below as it clearly indicates the safety rules.

Given all the warnings, it is probably better to make a proper spray booth than just rely on the temporary method I am using here, particularly, if you are going to do this sort of thing on a regular basis. I would also suggest that you do not use it with a good airbrush, different if you have an old airbrush that is no longer being used. This is what I would recommend.

Allan

[Mike Garwood]

Allan

What sort of air pressure is this being used at please?

regards

Mike

[Allan Goodwillie]

Hi Mike,

I have checked and the answer is 25psi. This is what I have been using up until now using my compressor. However, I have been experimenting this morning and have found that it will still operate at 10psi. but does have to be held close to the work piece for it to be effective. The higher pressure will clean more effectively and spray a larger area at the same time.

Further to the comments on previous postings. The end of the grit blaster has a hole approx 2.0mm diameter which, of course, is much larger than the normal airbrush and an off / on button. Being curious I did try using my old airbrush this morning and found that it would not cope, the channel being too narrow to take the dust.

This is all very interesting from my own point of view and possibly from the more experienced modeller's point of view, but it is beginning to stray away from my intentions for beginners, most of whom, I assume, will have used either one of the first two methods suggested. I was intending the minimum use of tools for them and maybe have strayed beyond this at this point. For that I do apologise. ( Remember that as well as a grit blasting kit you are also into providing an air supply which leads to further expense - something I am trying to avoid for the beginner.) Feel free to contact me behind the scenes using email , or perhaps it could lead to another thread on the fourum if enough people are interested.

Hope this has been some help Mike

Allan

[Allan Goodwillie]

Disassembly of the coupling rods

For preparation of the wheels and coupling rods it is important to separate the pieces but keep all the parts in order, so that everything goes back in the order it came off. I do not take wheels off axles , nor do I take the gearbox off, even if using spray paint, I prefer to mask these areas.

So what I do is lay the parts out on paper and mark down on the paper the relationship of all the parts - this is where your colour markings will come in handy again to make sure all parts are put back in the right place. Since I have two chassis I have also marked the individual papers "Comp" for the compensated chassis and "Sprung" for the sprung chassis to clearly indicate which parts are for which chassis. I also lay out the other parts, including chassis and keeper plate at the same time. After cleaning they all get laid out in their positions again - best to do this as you go along. This keeps everything right.

If you have like me, used a super glue gel for temporarily retaining the nuts you will find that a small pair of pliers will release the coupling rod retaining nuts. They should come off fairly readily. The gel tends just to peel off the thread. I like David's use of tubing to hold them in place and have already recommended this.

Allan

[Allan Goodwillie]

Dealing with the coupling rods

Before laying out the coupling rods I also mark on the board that they are going to be attached to, which set is which.

The coupling rods should be scrubbed in Vim and dried. They can then be set up on some cocktail sticks ready for painting. I use Bluetack to hold the cocktail sticks in place on a spray board. This makes it easy to handle. The Bluetack should also be protected by some masking tape to keep the spray off it . This stops it softening and moving due to a reaction with the spray, which makes it go gooey. It also allows you to be able to use it again.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Dealing with the wheels and Gearbox

The next stage is to clean the wheels using a glass fibre or brass brush and mask them using Maskol. The Maskol is painted, using a cheap brush, on to the cleaned wheel flanges, running surface and back edge. Tape up the other parts, gearbox, axles, so that they can be kept clear of spray. I have used a version of David's idea to cover the crank pins. just a piece of tubing with a small piece of Bluetack fitted into the end. In the past I have simply put a small piece of Bluetack on each one, but this allows for the re-use of the tack, without having to deal with something that has gone sticky.


Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Maskol used to cover other surfaces

Maskol can be used for many of the surfaces - including the horn guides on the chassis once the chassis has been cleaned as well as the contacts on the pick-ups and the wheel surfaces.

Now the surfaces are all cleaned and masked , it is painting time. The idea was to fit in with the West Groups building evening scheduled for Monday night, but it has been postponed due to various reasons.

I am intending doing the painting stage as a demonstration for the group, but this means that there would be a bit of a hiatus until we can meet, so I may make a point of painting one of the chassis just to keep this thread flowing. Once the chassis has been painted and re-assembled and tested, then the next step is the body.

Allan

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[Mike Garwood]

Allan
Thanks for the prompt reply, your answer has prompted another question; after using the grit blasting did you have to 'wash' the model to get rid of any debris or did it just fall off/brush away. Or is it a case of just blowing air through the compressor/air brush to get rid of the tiny particles left.

regards

Mike

[Julian Roberts]

Hi Allan - As a kind of aside on the preparation for painting: on my last modelling attempt, the Q1 you've referred to, for the first time I used the chemical blackening stuff from C&L on the wheels and all the chassis that was reachable, before cleaning in Vim equivalent and water and then painting. I was glad I did because with subsequent handling and troubleshooting some very little bits of paint on the wheel rims has tended to fall away, but this does not jar terribly as the metal below is a suitable darkish colour, quite in keeping with the not very clean appearance I aim for.

As I've had this on previous (unblackened) models as well - simply getting the wheels on the track for example can dislodge the paint quite easily I think - I don't THINK that the chemical blacking has made the paint adhere less well, but maybe that's debatable.

I think I will take the Acid Dip route next time. But if for whatever reason one is not able to detach the wheels, is the plastic harmed in the acid dip process?

On the Q1 when I'd done the chemical blacking, before cleaning up for painting, I wondered whether the chassis was convincing without any further work, the different materials (steel, brass, nickel silver) even with their own particular blacking each looking their own version of somewhere towards black, and overall a rather nice random effect showing. I should have taken a photo at that stage as a basis for reflection....

[Allan Goodwillie]

Hi Julian,

As far as I know there is no effect on the plastic, but I do not know if there is any long term problem. I have had old Studiolith wheels which had been exposed to the light over a long period fall to pieces due to I assume UV light exposure, a problem with some plastics that I know about. I too would be interested to find out something more definite and have never chemically blackened any of my wheels. If I knew that there would be no problem with a specific chemical blackener then I would use it myself, after all some wagon wheels come already chemically blackened - this may be a sign that it is OK.
Our discussions on Tuesday night at our AGM were interesting around your tightening up on slop. I have a BR 2-6-0 which works on a Kemilway S4 chassis which uses an interesting compensating system with axle boxes which are independent of the chassis except for fine wires to act as a form of torsion bar and limiter of travel. It does have a very strange way of running, particularly at speed as it rolls in quite an alarming way, although it stays on the track. It was fine when first built. I attach some of the other photographs of other locos under way as well as an underside of your 0-8-0T showing the underside.

John Stocks two locomotives were also on show and still under development. A Jinty kit being built from new and a conversion of a MR 0-4-4T which he had originally had running in 00. The locomotives were photographed in poor light, so apologies to John as the locomotives look much better in the metal as it were, but when they are finished I will make sure we do a proper photographic session on them.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Here are some photographs of John's 0-4-4T. A favourite engine which he has decided to rebuild.Time will be given to repairing the body and its seating now that he has managed to get the chassis to the running stage. I particularly liked John's version of compensation for the rear truck, which allows side travel for the boggy. Good solution worked out by John and well worth consideration by any others contemplating something similar. Nice photograph of his gearbox arrangement as well. Again we must get some nice photographs at completion.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Painting

Now we are at the painting stage, all the surfaces which you do not want to get paint on have either been wrapped up using masking tape or Maskol, this includes the surfaces of the horn block guides.

It is not necessary to have an airbrush or an extractor to be able to paint your models and I have in the past sprayed them during warmer days inside the garage with the door open for ventilation and away from drafts. Good ventilation and good light is important, keep all animals, fish tanks, other members of the family away from where you are working. Use a Mask.

On really good summer days you can work outside, small flies etc. may be a bit of a pest and paper put down on working surfaces tends to flip over on the slightest of breezes, so tape it down. Make sure there is no dust blowing around, work in a sheltered area.

As an alternative, it is possible to use spray paints in the workroom near an open window and give the air time to clear between spraying, but I do not really recommend doing this without some sort of extractor - better to use the garage.

The time I had available to do the present exercise coincided with the one wet week in June, so I set up my extractor in the work room and opened the window. The work table was covered in newspaper and a piece of wire fitted to the extractor to allow me to hang various components in front of it.

I use grey metal primer from Halfords generally. The spray heads are fine and provided you follow the instructions about mixing etc. you should get a good result. Spray too far away on a hot day and the particles will collide prior to hitting the surface and land partially dry forming a bit of an orange peel effect. Too close and you will have too quick a build up and running paint. When a tin is new, you will have to hold it the required distance back and as the pressure goes down you will be able to come closer and get an even coating.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Painting Continued

I now wear plastic gloves when using spray tins it saves cleaning fingers in acetone or nail varnish remover - just one more chemical less to deal with. Take your time and do not rush, wait for the paint to dry between coats 15 minutes is the suggested time, so maybe have another job on the go at the same time - in this case it was recording what was happening.

Patience Pays

A stiff wire can be used to help hold the chassis in position, or tweezers, if necessary. The main thing is not to put too much paint on at the one go. I sprayed the top end first and having allowed the paint to dry I turned the chassis upside down and sprayed the other end. Once I was fairly sure I had covered all the main areas and was satisfied that they had an even covering I then held the chassis in such a position that I could get at the bits that were difficult to get to. Once dry, the entire unit was checked for coverage and finding all was well it was replaced on the layout sheet in its original position. This being done consistently piece by piece.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Painting the coupling rods

Using the board and the ice cream tub support it is easy to manipulate the coupling rods. The ones on the Barclay tanks will be painted red and therefor require priming. If you want the effect of weathering it is also worthwhile priming before painting using enamels. It is possible to use various blackening liquids from Mr Carr as per the Q1 that Julian has been building. This is even more permanent than painting and should be considered. Maybe Julian will be happy to add a little to the thread to show how he has done his. I have always been happy painting.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Painting Wheels Etc.

The other parts should be painted with equal care. The use of backing card to handle the wheels and to screen the backs I find particularly useful, once made they can be used over again. If each one is made a different shape it helps to keep things organised. The keeper plate should be hung from an area which will later be hidden below the locomotive. You can hook the bottom while spraying so that it does not blow off the hook.

Allan

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[Allan Goodwillie]

Painting the Top Coat

The top coat of paint is painted on in the same way, or if you wish you may prefer to use enamels to paint the parts. for black locomotives I tend to use matt or semi-matt paint on the chassis. If the chassis /wheels are coloured I often use my airbrush, but in the early days I simply painted on an enamel layer, again using two thin coats of well mixed paint. If using enamels for locomotives it is always best to use a fresh tin of paint and a good sable brush.

Some of the best brushes available these days are made for war gamers - I have a very good set of Citadel brushes from a few years ago and was disappointed to find that they have been changed recently. I also have a set of Designer's sable brushes again available a number of years ago. They hold more paint at one go than the normal sable brushes, having longer hairs - easier to clean as well. When cleaning brushes, use the correct solvent each time then wash in soap and water, rinse properly, then, instead of putting them in a jar, lick your fingers and use the spittle to shape the brush again. do not lick the brush directly as you do not want to ingest anything you would not want in your system. Hang the brush up vertically so that any residue of material works its way down to the point rather than the ferrule. Little loops can be attached to the brush ends to allow for this. Common on Japanese brushes by the way and very sensible.

In this case I am simply respraying with a spray can, having allowed the primer to dry completely. No point in showing the same procedure over again.

Weathering can also be done at this time if you intend weathering the locomotive, this saves having to mask up areas all over again.

This takes the chassis to the point of finally rubbing off the Maskol and removing the tape for re-assembly and final wiring up of the motor.

I have a number of experimental things I intend for these two locomotives in terms of sound and smoke. So there will be a break between this part and the follow up on the chassis. Summer is here and demands of house and garden will take over for much of the next two months and then the bodies will be assembled in time for Scalefourum. Most of the group are making chassis for fitting to kits and ready to run, but I have had a few requests to cover the scratch building of the locomotive bodies and probably will continue with that, if there is a strong enough response. A simple reworking of a Comet chassis has also been requested , to show how a keeper plate can be fitted and wheels etc. dropped down for construction, painting etc.

This may be a good time for those of you out there that I know are following the series to post photographs of what you are building and the stage you have reached. Don't feel shy, I am pleased that the West Group boys have been willing to show their part finished models and not just wait until they are finished. A follow up on the engines when finished will also be on the cards as part of this series I am sure.

I do hope those of you that have been following this thread have found it of some use and those that have more experience have still picked up the odd glimmer or two. I am taking a work bench and samples to Scalefourum and if you wish to bring part built / finished engines along and have a chat I will be really happy to meet you then. Thank you those who have already contributed to this little sortie on the web I have appreciated your contributions very much.

Allan

[dgp1957]

Excellent info, wish I'd come across it before I built my CL104 loco

[Allan Goodwillie]

Don't worry David,

you will pick up a lot when you join up to our group, I am looking forward to seeing your work and encouraging you on your own project. When we get our mainline set up working in Glasgow it will be available for running in etc. I have not contributed to the fourum over the last couple of months, due to preparing for Scalefourum and doing some things both for Burntisland and also the West Group's layouts. We are going to get back to the locomotive development soon as I have been asked by many to carry on with some advice on scratch building locomotive bodies. I hope to start this at the beginning of December after I get back from exhibiting in Northern Ireland.

I was both surprised and pleased with the response I had at Scalefourum as many people spent an hour or more with me on the workshop. Never did see any of the exhibition however, just too busy I am afraid. Those who were attending the show seemed to think it was excellent again, which is good news for the organizers, who again did a very good job.

Allan

[Allan Goodwillie]

Visitors to this project may wish to move on to the final part where I scratchbuild the bodies for the locomotives. It is some time since I built the chassis for the Barclay locomotives and they were put on the back shelf while I worked on bits of Burntisland and reworked other parts of my Grayrigg and Dubbieside layouts. However I have been working towards building my new layout Scotts Road which the Barclay locomotives were intended for and due to some prodding from my friend Bob Heatherington I have started work on the bodies last weekend so this will be done as a progress report as the engines evolve over the next few weeks. Sorry those of you who may have been following the first two parts of this but I did say at the beginning that the thread was for beginners considering building their first chassis - however by now they may want to have a go at a complete scratchbuild so here goes - it will not be prescriptive but be in the usual style of having a go and enjoying the process. There will some mistakes made along the way and corrected I am sure , but that is the norm when scratchbuilding something and I want to reflect that as it will give a true impression of what it is like and share that with those who would like the challenge and who are only starting out on the experience and pleasures of making something completely by hand. I hope just as many join in as did in the past with useful ideas for the beginner.

You will find the new thread at http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3837