Blackening Stainless Steel

[jjnewitt]

I'm looking for a product to permenantly 'blacken' or darken Exactoscale stainless steel wheels and wondered if anyone knew of product to do this? A few years ago the ever helpful Phillip Hall put me on to a Japanese made metal etching pen which I've used very successfully but this appears to be no longer manufactured and mine is running out. I can't find anyone in the uk who stocks or has stock of an equivalent. There is a German company called Gima who do something but I can't find prices or a UK stockist. I'm looking for soemthing to permenantly darken the metal not paint over the top of it. I came across the following product which looks promising but thought I'd ask before I go and spend £70 plus postage:

https://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/stainless-steel-blackener-1-litre/

Justin

[Tim V]

A permanent marker felt tip pen might work.

[Philip Hall]

Hi Justin,

Found this, looks the same thing, from the US by the looks of it.

https://www.penntoolco.com/chemical-etc ... -97-470-9/

Philip

[Will L]

I'm looking for a product to permenantly 'blacken' or darken Exactoscale stainless steel wheels and wondered if anyone knew of product to do this? A few years ago the ever helpful Phillip Hall put me on to a Japanese made metal etching pen which I've used very successfully but this appears to be no longer manufactured and mine is running out. I can't find anyone in the uk who stocks or has stock of an equivalent. There is a German company called Gima who do something but I can't find prices or a UK stockist. I'm looking for soemthing to permenantly darken the metal not paint over the top of it. I came across the following product which looks promising but thought I'd ask before I go and spend £70 plus postage:

https://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/stainless-steel-blackener-1-litre/

Justin

I notice this interesting little caveat at the end of the write up which needs to be read along with the assertion that you use it at room temperature.
The only requirement is that the product and room temperature is not less than 27 degrees Celsius during the application process as it will not work well in colder temperatures.
I wonder where their room is?

[Tilly]

Hi Justin,

Have you read of the technique used by Richard in the Petcoke hopper thread for chemically blackening the ladders & walkways?

Rgds

Dave

[Albert Hall]

I would certainly look up the Safety Data Sheet for the Surface Monkey product before buying it. It seems to be based on selenous or selenious acid which is highly toxic, corrosive, possibly carcinogenic and probably fatal if swallowed. I used to bottle it up as stainless steel metal black under the Carrs label when I was at t C+L. It wasn't very effective from what I heard.
Roy

[jjnewitt]

A permanent marker felt tip pen might work.

I tried that a while back and wasn't that pleased with the result. I tried it again last night using my Sharpie. The finish is ok, if a bit purple and shiny but is fairly easily rubbed off which would be a concern on wheel treads.

Hi Justin,Found this, looks the same thing, from the US by the looks of it.

https://www.penntoolco.com/chemical-etc ... -97-470-9/

That looks like exactly the same thing. Goodness knows how much it would cost to ship, if they'll let you.

I notice this interesting little caveat at the end of the write up which needs to be read along with the assertion that you use it at room temperature.
The only requirement is that the product and room temperature is not less than 27 degrees Celsius during the application process as it will not work well in colder temperatures.
I wonder where their room is?

Somewhere cosy for sure! Mind you our home office would be fine on a sunny day.

Have you read of the technique used by Richard in the Petcoke hopper thread for chemically blackening the ladders & walkways?

I looked through the thread again and couldn't see what Richard had used to do the blackening. I did notice the ladders and walkways are brass though not stainless steel.

I would certainly look up the Safety Data Sheet for the Surface Monkey product before buying it. It seems to be based on selenous or selenious acid which is highly toxic, corrosive, possibly carcinogenic and probably fatal if swallowed. I used to bottle it up as stainless steel metal black under the Carrs label when I was at t C+L. It wasn't very effective from what I heard.

I looked up the data sheet. It's a mixture of hydrochloric, selenious and phosphoric acids along with some copper sulphate. Pretty nasty stuff. The metal etching pens aren't much better though being a mix of hydrochloric, nitric and sulphuric acid.

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll have a further dig around.

Justin

[Terry Bendall]

It wasn't very effective from what I heard.

The clue is probably in the name of the material.

Terry Bendall

[grovenor-2685]

but is fairly easily rubbed off which would be a concern on wheel treads.

Unless you are modelling disused wagons stuck at the end of a siding, then the wheel treads should be shiny steel. Surely you try to apply only to the rim on the front and back of the wheel, any getting on the tread, the easier it comes off the better.

[jjnewitt]

Unless you are modelling disused wagons stuck at the end of a siding, then the wheel treads should be shiny steel. Surely you try to apply only to the rim on the front and back of the wheel, any getting on the tread, the easier it comes off the better.

I don't think they should be as shiny as untreated Exactoscale wheels, even for a wagon in use. Have a random scroll through Paul Bartlett's website. It's rare to find a wagon with wheels that are really shiny. Flanges occasionally but not so much treads and on none of them do they stick out like a sore thumb which is what would happen if I left them as they're sold. I'm not after dark black wheels, just something a bit more muted, like the wheels in most of those images.

Justin

[Tim V]

I'm with Keith on this one. Paul's pictures would have been of wagons standing, sometimes for a few days/weeks.

Swindon (6).JPG

This preserved wagon shows a polished surface, but it won't be able to do many miles.

[Winander]

That looks like exactly the same thing. Goodness knows how much it would cost to ship, if they'll let you.

I was curious so put one in my cart, entered my address and the cost? Zero, although I think there is probably more to that story. There is a minimum spend of $25 though. It might be worth getting it touch with them.

The clue is probably in the name of the material

.
Nice one Terry

[Albert Hall]

The only truly bright shiny wheel treads I can recall were those which had just been through a wheel lathe. In general they were more like that shown in Tim's photo. So maybe the commercial stainless steel blackener which doesn't work all that well would give the desired result for the treads at least. You have to consider how much of the tread and occasionally the flange root is actually in contact with the railhead. Not a great deal unless there is considerable hollow wear which results in rough riding, but that's another story!

Roy

[rene.cortis]

Shiny stainless steel has always been a no-go for me in railway modeling. Luckily enough there are at least to ways to cope with this problem.

The first solution is actually quite easy and cheap.
What you need is common salt from your kitchen, iron vitriol and water. Prepare a saturated solution, first water and salt (about 30 g per 100 ml) and enough iron vitriol until it is saturated, which depends on the temperature.
Then you just have to hang the wheels into the solution for 1-2 days - done!
I am not a chemist, so I had to ask a friend of mine, a chemistry teacher, what I actually brewed. Luckily it is not dangerous but both iron vitriol and salt can be quite aggressive to lower quality stainless steels and corrode them quite easily. Perfect! The patina is also quite stable.

Now some of you may ask how I hit on it? By accident, when I was mixing homemade painting (Falu Red) and my stainless steel stirrer corroded.

The second and a little bit more expensive way is buying the bluing solution for stainless steel from Tifoo, which I newly discovered. This gives you a much stronger effect than my “home brewed” solution, so strong that I actually mixed it with 2 parts of water to control the process better.

Hope I could help you with my first post here on the forum,

René

IMG_9817.jpeg

The wheels hanging in my "home-brewed" solution.

IMG_9812.jpeg

The result of mye home-brewed solution

IMG_9823.jpeg

At its place in a Rapido van

IMG_9894.jpeg

The result of the Tifoo bluing solution

[Paul Willis]

Morning Rene,

That is very impressive. The results from the Tifoo solution look very good. I'll keep an eye open for that when I need some. There are webpages in English even though it looks like a German company. I hope that means that they will ship to the UK, as there seems to be no British based supplier.

And welcome to the Forum

Best wishes,
Paul

[rene.cortis]

Thank you Paul!

Yes, Tifoo is a German company and the solution is also produced in Germany what should make the working with it safe enough (at least I hope so ). I am German too (so my English may not be Oxford standard) but living in Northern Norway, so shipping to a non-EU country is no problem.

The solution works also on Alan Gibson steel tires. I am not a big fan of the original blackening. So I put the wheel sets in to lemon juice to remove the blackening. After that, I add new blackening which I remove again on the treads with a glassfiber pen. This gives imo a more natural look and a good base for weathering.

It also seems to work on nickel silver and gives brass a nice steel look.

IMG_9897.jpeg

AG - after removing the original blackening

IMG_9896.jpeg

After adding Tifoo stainless steel blackening

Best,

René

[jjnewitt]

Hi Rene,

Thanks for posting your various blackening techniques. Like you super shiny stainless steel wheels are a complete non-starter for me. They just don't look right. The wheels don't need to be completely black like Gibson wheels (that doesn't look right either) but they need to be toned down a bit.

I brought some blackening solution for stianless steel last year but have yet to try it out. I'm still working my way through a batch of wheels I did with a metal etching pen. If the stuff I brought isn't much good I'll be coming back to your posts.

Justin

[MPR]

Yes, Tifoo is a German company and the solution is also produced in Germany what should make the working with it safe enough (at least I hope so ).

There is an MSDS on the website - this confirms that the product is similar in composition to the other products mentioned - ie selenium compound based, so do take suitable precautions when using it.

[rene.cortis]

There is an MSDS on the website - this confirms that the product is similar in composition to the other products mentioned - ie selenium compound based, so do take suitable precautions when using it.

Of course, it is still nasty stuff! With "safe enough" I ment, that all ingredients (hydrochloric acid, selenious acid & copper sulphate pentahydrate) are declared and you know what you are dealing with.

René