Mid 70’s Ballast Options?

[ClikC]

Evening all,

I’m looking to produce something akin to:
https://flic.kr/p/TLY3Vi
Courtesy of Antony Guppy on Flickr.

I was debating using the Woodland Scenics range, but when examining the differences between the medium and fine, it looked to me like something in the middle would be better suited.

So my question is, what are others using for ballast? What options out there might make a good starting point for the above?

Regards

[Alan Turner]

Evening all,

I’m looking to produce something akin to:
https://flic.kr/p/TLY3Vi
Courtesy of Antony Guppy on Flickr.

I was debating using the Woodland Scenics range, but when examining the differences between the medium and fine, it looked to me like something in the middle would be better suited.

So my question is, what are others using for ballast? What options out there might make a good starting point for the above?

Regards

Ballast is 1.5" so that makes it 0.5mm for P4. That appears to be about what Woodlands Scenic Fine is. You could mix a little of medium in if you wish.

regards

Alan

[Terry Bendall]

Ballast is 1.5"

The size of ballast can vary. I was looking at some in use on the East Lancs Railway yesterday which looked finer than that. In 4mm scale I use ballast designed for 2mm scale and real crushed stone rather than scenic subsitutes.

Terry Bendall

[ClikC]

Ballast is 1.5" so that makes it 0.5mm for P4. That appears to be about what Woodlands Scenic Fine is. You could mix a little of medium in if you wish.

regards

Alan

Hi Alan,

I have to admit I didn’t measure any, but the fine did look a little underscale to my eye, in terms of how much you could fit between the sleepers, and the medium seemed 4x larger than the fine.

I also took a look at the DCC Concepts ballast, but the colour consistency seemed lacking, random bits of grey/ brown in the black etc. I’d prefer to blend myself.

Ballast is 1.5"

The size of ballast can vary. I was looking at some in use on the East Lancs Railway yesterday which looked finer than that. In 4mm scale I use ballast designed for 2mm scale and real crushed stone rather than scenic subsitutes.

Terry Bendall

Hi Terry,

The general consensus seems to be us n-gauge ballast for 4mm.

I’ve also seen some excellent ballast from Paul King over on Western Thunder, if perhaps a tad too heavily weathered for my case, made with an infill of sand and then granite chippings. Video here: https://youtu.be/8IeZ8dXR1MU

Recommendations for real stone ballast?

Regards

[Jeremy Suter]

I started off with Atwood aggregates and then mixed in Bude beach sand. It may be a little large but I was happy with its colour and look

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[allanferguson]

I have used used (and dried) coffee grounds, which seemed to me to be about right for main lines.
You need much finer stuff for yards and other slow speed lines


Allan F

[ClikC]

I started off with Atwood aggregates and then mixed in Bude beach sand. It may be a little large but I was happy with its colour and look

IMG_8010.JPG
IMG_8009.JPG
IMG_8008.JPG

Hi Jeremy, I’m definitely interested in the Attword Aggregates fine (0.75mm) range, which definitely sounds like it would sit between the Woodland Scenics range.

I’d consider using a laboratory test sieve (such as: [url]www.amazon.co.uk/Tansoole-Economy-Sieve-φ10×4-5cm-Stainless/dp/B07TMD328F[/url] ) to try to achieve that 0.65mm average, but not sure if worth it when factoring in cost of ballast and how much you might waste.

Regards

[Terry Bendall]

I have also used the Attwood Aggregates range which is very good with different types of stone used to replicate the fact that diferent stone was used around the country depending on wuich quarry the ballast came from.

For yards and places where the ballast would not be new I used real steam loco ash not domestic fire ash which looks different. This is crushed up and may be mixed with ballast or used on its own.

Terry Bendall

[Philip Hall]

I’m interested in ballast mixes but my twist is that it must not be stone, at least on main running lines. That’s far too noisy for my tastes, so I have in the past used granulated cork fixed with diluted latex. The glue used does not fix the track, that’s pinned lightly.

So my question: has anyone any recommendations for ‘soft’ ballast? The opposite of stone maybe. I’m still thinking of cork, but finding fine enough grains might be a problem. Or cork at all, come to that!

Philip

[nberrington]

Hi Philip - here in Canada, Princess Auto sells crushed nut husks used for sandblasting. They are extremely light and the right size to my eye, but a huge issue if you have an allergy!

I didn’t care too much for it in my experiments as it floats about if you don’t first spray it liberally with wet water first. Artists Matt medium glues it down well, and it remains quite flexible.

I have a tons of the stuff if you want a wee sample.....

[shipbadger]

I was under the impression that Woodland Scenics ballast was made from crushed walnut shells. Bit expensive to use for sand blasting though.
Tony Comber

[Philip Hall]

Thanks for the ideas. I might now have a source for the granulated cork but these other materials could be useful.

Philip

[Paul Willis]

I was under the impression that Woodland Scenics ballast was made from crushed walnut shells. Bit expensive to use for sand blasting though.
Tony Comber

Five kilos for twenty quid? If that was my thing, it is almost worth it as a trial, for the price of three pints of beer...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323770792536?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338956843&toolid=10049&customid=777_777_777

Best,
Paul

[Steve Carter]

Apparently Greenscenes ballast is made from a natural product and coated with a permanent colour?

[ClikC]

I considered the noise issue, but from reading various threads on RMweb, noise seems more to be about the glue used and not the ballast itself. Copydex being cited as resulting in less noise than PVA for example.

Regards

[Julian Roberts]

I’m interested in ballast mixes but my twist is that it must not be stone, at least on main running lines. That’s far too noisy for my tastes, so I have in the past used granulated cork fixed with diluted latex. The glue used does not fix the track, that’s pinned lightly.

So my question: has anyone any recommendations for ‘soft’ ballast? The opposite of stone maybe. I’m still thinking of cork, but finding fine enough grains might be a problem. Or cork at all, come to that!

Philip

Philip I bought cork from Corkstore24 which turned out to be in Europe, one of the former East bloc countries, I forget which. Anyway the service was great apart from taking about three weeks. I also bought a minimal quantity (I think 0.5kg) of their cork granules for ballast but now doubt if I'll use them as they are so fine I think proper mask equipment and an extractor is needed and I don't have that level of equipment. You'd be welcome to it, PM me if interested. It may be too fine though, it may be less than 0.1mm size!
https://www.corkstore24.co.uk/shop/125-cork-dust/
Maybe one of the several other products will be suitable.

[Julian Roberts]

I considered the noise issue, but from reading various threads on RMweb, noise seems more to be about the glue used and not the ballast itself. Copydex being cited as resulting in less noise than PVA for example.

Regards

I'm trying artists matte medium very watered down with IPA and water. A lot more expensive than PVA but my layout is small. The resulting ballast is a lot less hard and unworkable; I don't notice any increase in noise compared with prior to ballasting. I'm not making any claim it's the noise answer; I like it for the flexibility to correct mistakes when it's dry; yet so far it hasn't shown any tendency to break or come loose even after a 70 mile car journey with boards on their sides for the Perth exhibition.

For yards and places where the ballast would not be new I used real steam loco ash not domestic fire ash which looks different. This is crushed up and may be mixed with ballast or used on its own.

Terry Bendall

.

Crushed up how Terry?

[Philip Hall]

Julian,

Thanks for the link, interesting range. I actually found a packet of what I would describe as cork dust and it does look much too fine. My usual cork supplier (SPD) turned out to have granules and helpfully is sending a sample of the finest ones they do. Some Canadian crushed nuts are also on their way I believe and with some Greenscenes or Woodland Scenics varieties I shall have plenty to make comparisons with.

Acrylic medium is something I hadn't considered for fixing it down. I am going to try watered down Wakol cork adhesive (SPD again) or possibly watered down Copydex. One advantage here is that the railway is permanent so heavy duty fixing is not required, just a bit of resistance to occasional vacuuming.

I am absolutely nuts (sorry!) about quiet running and having achieved that by lightly pinning the track down initially, I am determined to keep it like that, at least on the main running lines.

Philip

[Terry Bendall]

Crushed up how Terry?

Wrap in several layers of newspaper, apply a large hammer, sieve then repeat until you have sufficient for thr job. The newspaper will need to be replaced after a while.

Terry Bendall

[Hardwicke]

Slater's N gauge ballast from about 30 years ago, or fine aquarium sand mixed with black poster paint pigment and talc, or coking plant fine blown coke dust. This might be difficult to source unless you're near a steelworks now. I got some from Monkton before it vanished near Barnsley. The road outside was covered in it.

[Julian Roberts]

Illustrates my earlier post. And gives another answer to the OP. Thanks Terry for your reply.