Starting in P4 (again)

[JamesH]

I thought I would introduce myself, I was a member of the Society some time ago (8-10 years) and have recently rejoined.

I recently dug through all my purchases from a few years ago and was pleased to find I still have a few odds and ends that will help me build a P4 layout.

I have a few questions I hope you don't mind me asking:

I have found 2 Exacto Scale (I think) turnout kits I made, both A5's I believe, and are on the 1.5mm plastic sleepers. The question is radius to tight to get a modern CO-CO diesel round?

I also have Exacto Scale B6 turnout kit I am yet to build, this is on the thinner timber sleepers - at Scale forum someone mentioned you can get just the sleepers for the kit via the society sales, can anyone tell me which item I would need for this?

I also have several lengths of flexi track in track in P4, these seem to be on thin plastic sleepers and I am not sure but I suspect they are C&L? Can I get the thicker sleepers for these and reuse the rail?

My plan is to make a small layout to try my hand at P4 and see how things go, I am a modern image modeler and I think I might build a small Nuclear flask depot based very loosely on Bridge Water. I have 2 Accurscale class 37's and Accurascale supply drop-in P4 wheel sets for a very reasonable cost.

Many thanks

James

[jim s-w]

I have found 2 Exacto Scale (I think) turnout kits I made, both A5's I believe, and are on the 1.5mm plastic sleepers. The question is radius to tight to get a modern CO-CO diesel round?

Should be fine. Remember modern RTR diesels are designed to go round set track curves. Changing the wheels won't effect the swing of the bogies

I also have Exacto Scale B6 turnout kit I am yet to build, this is on the thinner timber sleepers - at Scale forum someone mentioned you can get just the sleepers for the kit via the society sales, can anyone tell me which item I would need for this?

I also have several lengths of flexi track in track in P4, these seem to be on thin plastic sleepers and I am not sure but I suspect they are C&L? Can I get the thicker sleepers for these and reuse the rail?

You could but it's probably cheaper to mount the track onto some thin ply or plasticard to adjust the height.

[JamesH]

I have found 2 Exacto Scale (I think) turnout kits I made, both A5's I believe, and are on the 1.5mm plastic sleepers. The question is radius to tight to get a modern CO-CO diesel round?

Should be fine. Remember modern RTR diesels are designed to go round set track curves. Changing the wheels won't effect the swing of the bogies

I also have Exacto Scale B6 turnout kit I am yet to build, this is on the thinner timber sleepers - at Scale forum someone mentioned you can get just the sleepers for the kit via the society sales, can anyone tell me which item I would need for this?

I also have several lengths of flexi track in track in P4, these seem to be on thin plastic sleepers and I am not sure but I suspect they are C&L? Can I get the thicker sleepers for these and reuse the rail?

You could but it's probably cheaper to mount the track onto some thin ply or plasticard to adjust the height.

Thank you Jim.

I was told on Saturday you are the man to ask when it comes to converting diesels, and there is an article somewhere on using the Gibson kits. I have Bachman 37 and 66 to convert and have bought the Gibson Conversion sets.

[grovenor-2685]

I have found 2 Exacto Scale (I think) turnout kits I made, both A5's I believe, and are on the 1.5mm plastic sleepers. The question is radius to tight to get a modern CO-CO diesel round?

Probably OK for the loco by itself but you are likely to have issues if rolling stock attached so need to be wary.

I also have Exacto Scale B6 turnout kit I am yet to build, this is on the thinner timber sleepers - at Scale forum someone mentioned you can get just the sleepers for the kit via the society sales, can anyone tell me which item I would need for this?

The plastic turnout bases do not include a B6 but could be made by combining an A6 with a B7, or you can just get crossing timbers and cut to length, item 4XXPCTO. For chairs you need the switch set and the crossing set, 4CH501A and 4CH502A, I'm not sure if those include the common chairs for the closure rails, if not you would need a pack of common chairs also, eg 4CH101A.

[jim s-w]

I was told on Saturday you are the man to ask when it comes to converting diesels, and there is an article somewhere on using the Gibson kits. I have Backman 37 and 66 to convert and have bought the Gibson Comversion sets.

Kind of you to say James and that might have been true a long time ago. I haven't brought any new RTR locos for an awfully long time now so I don't really know anything about them. The newest RTR loco I did buy was the bachmann class 85 when it first came out. Over a decade ago now!

[Terry Bendall]

Welcome back James

I have Backman 37 and 66 to convert and have bought the Gibson Comversion sets.

Having converted quite a lot of Bacjmann 37s the following may assist.

First test the loco for smooth running whilst it still has the OO wheels fitted. If you have an OO turnout test over that as well. Doing this means you know the loco is running nicely before you do anything to it. This is not my idea - it was a suggestion made by someone else. Probably a good thing for anyone converting a steam outline model to do.

I have not done a 66 for a long time but if the drive is the same as the 37 with all axle drive put a steel rule across the wheeks to make sure they are all level. On some 37s the centre axle may be a bit higher (when the loco is upside down) causing the rule to rock on the centre wheels. We don't want this is P4 since it may cause de-railments.

I usually use 14 mm coach wheels from Branchlines - another idea developed by someone else. The axle diameter is the same as Bachmann and they are cheaper than conversion sets and you re-use the gears. Some people use these for the outside axles and Gibson ones for the middle set, since the Gibson ones are (I think) a little smaller in diameter. This helps to cure the rocking problem if it exists. I usually use the same size throughout. If there is a rocking problem a little bit of paring away at the top of the bearing slot with a scalple will create a small amount of vertical movement.

I have not used Gibson conversion sets but I assume they are a direct replacement. If it is necessary to remove new wheels from axles, as is the case when you use coach wheels, it can be resting the wheels on the top of the vice jaws and using a pin punch. You can pull the wheels off by hand but this runs the risk of distorting them. When fitting wheels to an axle, a very small amount of rounding off of the end of the axle with a fine file helps to get the new wheel on "sqaure" to the axle. I press the wheels on in a vice which also helps with this and use a back to back gauge to set the wheels to the correct distance. Check all round with the gauge to make sure the wheels are on "square"

It is a good idea to bend the pickups outwards before you fit the new wheels in place. That way thy should touch the wheels. It may be necessary to do some scraping on the inside of the bogie side frames to give some sideways movement. This includes the moulded brake pull rods. Sometimes I cut these off totally. It is difficult to see they are missing.

Some of the 37s I have converted run very well but a couple give problems - usually only one wheel set on one bogie in one direction. I still have a couple which run on Ravenscroft Sidings to sort out before the layout goes to Warley in November. If you are going to that show stop by and have a closer look at the locos.

Terry Bendall

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi James.
I have used a similar method using Banchlines coach wheels for diesel conversions (2mm axles) except that I use a gear puller to remove the wheel with the insulating bush from the axle. It needs to be one with a box pattern frame. I have found that trying to shift the non insulated wheel can result in the wheel reducing its grip on the brass axle. This will blunt the end of the pinpoint but usually the pinpoints need to be carefully filed down anyway to get the axles to fit. The gear puller is also useful for gently adjusting the Back to Back after fitting the gear wheel and replacing the insulated wheel.
Regards
Tony.

[JamesH]

Keith, Terry and Tony.

Thank you for the replies, quite a bit to think about there.

James

[Re6/6]

Hi James.
I have used a similar method using Banchlines coach wheels for diesel conversions (2mm axles) except that I use a gear puller to remove the wheel with the insulating bush from the axle. It needs to be one with a box pattern frame. I have found that trying to shift the non insulated wheel can result in the wheel reducing its grip on the brass axle. This will blunt the end of the pinpoint but usually the pinpoints need to be carefully filed down anyway to get the axles to fit. The gear puller is also useful for gently adjusting the Back to Back after fitting the gear wheel and replacing the insulated wheel.
Regards
Tony.

Black Beetle wheels now are all supplied in stainless and are bushed (double insulated).

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks John.
I tried to buy some more Black Beetle wheels at Scaleforum, but they were out of stock, or I would have found that out for myself.
Regards
Tony.