6 wheel Midland coaches

[James Walters]

Hi all,

I have some 6 wheel Midland coaches on the drawing board at the moment, and I need to be thinking about the springing.
Is there a recommended 'go-to' method for 6 wheel underframes?
I have been looking at the Brassmasters Cleminson underframes but wondered what the alternatives might be.

James

[Julian Roberts]

Hi James

I start with the outer four wheels, make one axle rocking (compensating), then spring the middle axle. Trick is how much spring - too little and the centre wheels may not stay on the rails, too much and there isn't enough weight on the outer ones, so they may not stay on the rails . I wrote it up somewhat laboriously in a Snooze;' or see viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6653&p=70806&hilit=BZ+6+wheel+van#p70806

I put in a good amount of weight to counteract the spring. Have fun whatever method you follow, I'm sure better suggestions that avoid the dreaded fixed axle will be along soon!

[James Walters]

Hi Julian,
Thank you so much, I found your link really useful, along with the various other threads linked within. Lots for me to think about.

[David B]

There is this thread from 2011: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1588&hilit=six

I also remember someone treating the vehicle as a 4-wheeler and putting the middle axle inside a tube so it could move from side to side on bends. Unfortunately I cannot find the thread.

[Philip Hall]

I have used the Brassmasters Cleminson underframes and found them very effective.

Philip

[James Walters]

There is this thread from 2011: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1588&hilit=six

I also remember someone treating the vehicle as a 4-wheeler and putting the middle axle inside a tube so it could move from side to side on bends. Unfortunately I cannot find the thread.

Thank you David, Julian's thread led me to Mark's blog here: https://highlandmiscellany.com/2018/02/ ... ing-axles/ , maybe this is what you were thinking of. A really excellent write-up - very helpful.

[David B]

That's the one.

[billb]

Hi all,

I have some 6 wheel Midland coaches on the drawing board at the moment, and I need to be thinking about the springing.
Is there a recommended 'go-to' method for 6 wheel underframes?
I have been looking at the Brassmasters Cleminson underframes but wondered what the alternatives might be.

There should be some sprung w-irons for MR six-wheeled coaches in the Stores real-soon-now.

There is this thread from 2011: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1588&hilit=six

I also remember someone treating the vehicle as a 4-wheeler and putting the middle axle inside a tube so it could move from side to side on bends. Unfortunately I cannot find the thread.

Yes, but this depended on using Exactoscale 1mm axles which are no longer available.

[zebedeesknees]

Yes, but this depended on using Exactoscale 1mm axles which are no longer available.

Or 1mm plain rod running in 1mm bore p/b parallel bearings* which replace pinpoints in your carriers, Bill.
*S4 Stores 4CW 603

Ted.

[grovenor-2685]

Yes, but this depended on using Exactoscale 1mm axles which are no longer available.

Except from Scalefour Stores as items 4CW501A and 4CW502A at £2.50 for 10.

[Eastern]

Exactoscale used to sell 1mm parallel end axles along with brass sleeves under the code 4CW 503A which could be used for this purpose, but these are not available from the stores. I see that Mark Tatlow seems to have produced his axles by stripping the plastic sleeve from Exactoscale pinpointed axles.

Regards

Roger

[Daddyman]

Exactoscale used to sell 1mm parallel end axles along with brass sleeves under the code 4CW 503A which could be used for this purpose, but these are not available from the stores. I see that Mark Tatlow seems to have produced his axles by stripping the plastic sleeve from Exactoscale pinpointed axles.

Regards

Roger

Pretty sure he did, yes, as that's what I did when I copied him.

[davebradwell]

If you can't get an Exacto pin-point axle then just put a piece of 1mm silver steel (cut to correct length) in your Black & Decker and cone the end with a file held at correct angle - you might even have a lathe for all we know. You don't want a sharp point.

The Tatlow way really is very simple and must be the preferred way of doing 6W coaches. Just be careful that the wheel can't touch the spring or its carrier as this will make the chassis live. The wheels are a very tight fit on 2mm tubing (which is slightly oversize) as they're sized for an axle which is a touch under nominal size.

DaveB

[James Walters]

Thank you for all the very helpful replies. It seems the sliding centre axle is a popular concept.
Let's hope the BB etches are available in the not too distant future, although I may well have a go with a Brassmasters unit in the interim. As a novice it would be helpful to me to do a comparison between the two methods.
I do have a lathe and a set of collets so producing a pin-point onto a 1mm axle shouldn't be too much of a problem.
As you may have guessed, these will be for my Jubilee Challenge entry, so there's no immediate rush to get the job done.

I've had a very kind offer of help with the stock from a member in our area group, but I don't want to take advantage too much so thought I'd devote a little attention of my own to some of the basic stock requirements.

Here's the first test print of a carriage body, still some work to do refining the print, but it's getting there.

Thanks again,

James

Coach 3d print 2.jpg

[Lindsay G]

The Brassmaster Cleminson units work effectively, but I find the major drawback is in fitting springs and axleboxes neatly when all W irons are free from the coach body - a problem overcome by the use of sprung units. There is also the problem of a lot of the underside taken up with the Cleminson swinging units such that there is little space for adding lumps of lead and all the brake and other gubbins that should be added beneath the coach.

[James Walters]

Thank you Lindsay, that's a very good point. I've allowed for extra weight by including voids under the seating, but I hadn't considered the rest of the underframe bits and bobs. I'll just have to sit patiently and hope the etches to become available. There's plenty to do in the meantime.

James

[Daddyman]

The wheels are a very tight fit on 2mm tubing (which is slightly oversize) as they're sized for an axle which is a touch under nominal size.

I find Wizard wheels, which I think come from Gibson, a little too loose on my stock of Eileen's 2mm brass tube.

[davebradwell]

I can't see why you would want to build compensated and sprung coaches for comparison - we did that over the last 50 years despite a few diehards. Mark's system is just so straightforward so why would you want all those swinging wobbly bits? Cheap too. After you've built a couple of sprung wagons you'll know where you're going. Biggest problem is finding a way to get axles at right angles to the solebars that suits you and that applies to any sort of suspension.

DaveB

[Mark Tatlow]

Hi all,

I have found the sliding axle to be an effective solution to six wheeled carriages although with really long ones there is not enough room for the wheel to slide to take up the throw of the curved track. This all depends on the wheelbase of the carriage and radius of track but the Highland had some that had a 28 foot wheelbase and I doubt that the sliding axle would work for these unless the layout was close to straight!

One point I would emphasis is that I use a lighter spring on the centre axle than I do on the outer; enough to make the wheel ride on the rail head but not exert too much pressure.

Its worth experimenting before you go too far down any particular route I would suggest.

[Hardwicke]

If you need info on the prototype I can go and see the two Midland ones at Swanwick Junction. One in unrestored condition. Also an LMS BZ.