Heljan North British Bo-Bo 10800

[Hardwicke]

I picked up the Heljan North British Bo-Bo 10800 from Rails of Sheffield yesterday (and then had a couple of nice beers in the Sheaf View). They have it on discount. It looks like it should convert easily, but does anyone know what traffic it was used on? I've seen it on later Brush test on the Midland line to Rugby and around Birmingham and London but always on semi fast passenger. Did it do anything else?

[pete_mcfarlane]

It did some work on loco hauled trains out of Victoria to the south coast via Oxted. More details (and a photo) here: https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/b ... locomotive

[Hardwicke]

I suppose it has the same motor/gears as the class 15 and 16.

[Hardwicke]

It did some work on loco hauled trains out of Victoria to the south coast via Oxted. More details (and a photo) here: https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/b ... locomotive

It's behind a firewall.
I'd have to subscribe to Hornby which I don't want to do after the recent experiences of poor craftsmanship with their T9 and Light Pacifics.

[nigelcliffe]

It did some work on loco hauled trains out of Victoria to the south coast via Oxted. More details (and a photo) here: https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/b ... locomotive

It's behind a firewall.
I'd have to subscribe to Hornby which I don't want to do after the recent experiences of poor craftsmanship with their T9 and Light Pacifics.

KeyModelWorld, publishers of Hornby Magazine are NOT Hornby the model train maker. Hornby the model train maker licensed the use of their name for the magazine to a publisher.


- Nigel

[Tony Wilkins]

I suppose it has the same motor/gears as the class 15 and 16.

Hi Michael.
I imagine the model will be basically similar to their class 15 and 16 having converted both to P4, there is not much difference between them.
If the instructions tell you to remove the cab section first, be wary. The cab needs to be lifted straight up by prizing it up from the bottom and not bending the bodyshell as there are two clips locating the top of the cab to the front and rear bonnet sections and these easily break. I found this out the hard way. It should be possible to just convert the loco without removing the body by removing the bogie sideframes and keeper plates.

The prototype had basically the same BTH electrical equipment as the later class 15s. The Class 16s had GEC electrics.
Considering that the class 16s were built by NBL as was 10800, this may seem rather odd.
There is a section on the loco and the pilot type 1s in the book Diesel Pioneers by David N Clough.
10800 was mostly used on passenger traffic by the LMR and SR, but in December 1954 it went to Plaistow on the ER where its main work was on local transfer freights, although it was also tried on commuter trains out of Fenchurch St. It was soon transferred back to the LMR in February 1955. Based at Rugby its main duties were passenger and freight along the Oxford, Bletchley, Cambridge line and occasionally to Birmingham. It was withdrawn in August 1959.
A more detailed history of the loco and its workings can also be found in LMS Diesel Locomotives and Railcars by E.V.Richards.

Apparently the ER felt it was under powered for the work they wanted it to do, which is rather interesting when viewed in the light of what subsequently happened. They acquired the class 15s and 16s for which 10800 could be considered a prototype.
Regards
Tony.

[Simon_S]

It did some work on loco hauled trains out of Victoria to the south coast via Oxted. More details (and a photo) here: https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/b ... locomotive

It's behind a firewall.
I'd have to subscribe to Hornby which I don't want to do after the recent experiences of poor craftsmanship with their T9 and Light Pacifics.

Do a Google search "site:keymodelworld.com north british 10800", the first result will be the site above but you will be able to access it. This trick works for many pay-walled sites, don't ask me why.

[David Catton]

The latest version of Firefox offers the facility to access sites bypassing firewalls . . .

[zebedeesknees]

The Real Thing.
Two diagrams, outline and main dimensions, and also the layout of the equipment appeared in the latest, November 2023 (V33 N2) issue of Brill, along with some excellent photographs. Shame about the captions where they describe it as 18000 a couple of times!
The copy text is somewhat bland, I was expecting to see what from my memory was a description of this loco's shortcomings; great difficulty in starting the engine when warm, there being instructions not to turn it off in a station after idling for a while.
And a story, possibly apocryphal, that one driver reported to Control that it had stopped on the road. When asked if it could be restarted, he pointed out that this would be impossible while some of the pistons were in an adjacent field...
It was trialled in a number of regions, but that could have been because nobody wanted a 'lemon'.

Ted.

[Rod Cameron]

Thanks for the Brill heads up Ted

Another story was that it was left idling in the platform at ?Rugby while the crew went to the cafe or gents, and some jobsworth got on and turned it off. It took a very long time to get it restarted, hence its name the 'Wonder Engine' - as in 'I wonder if it will start today?'

Mine will probably be converted using a spare Ultrascale Class 33 set, although the gear will need shifting off-centre to fit.

It's a shame for SR modellers that they couldn't do a version without the lower row of bonnet side louvres ...

[Hardwicke]

The running of the loco is appalling. It hardly gets above 10 mph

[Tony Wilkins]

The running of the loco is appalling. It hardly gets above 10 mph

Hi Micheal.
Somethings not right here. I have converted several Heljan locos and they all run well. There is most likely additional friction somewhere in the drive train.
First thing I would check is that the drive shafts between the motor and bogies are correctly engaged in their respective slots.
If converted to P4 it is likely that the wheels / axles rub on the inside of the bogie sideframes judging by their BTH and NBL type ones. The bogies had a horizontal rib along the inside face of the sideframes, which needed to be cut away, although I didn't find this slowed down my locos as much as that.
Regards
Tony.

[Hardwicke]

The running of the loco is appalling. It hardly gets above 10 mph

Hi Micheal.
Somethings not right here. I have converted several Heljan locos and they all run well. There is most likely additional friction somewhere in the drive train.
First thing I would check is that the drive shafts between the motor and bogies are correctly engaged in their respective slots.
If converted to P4 it is likely that the wheels / axles rub on the inside of the bogie sideframes judging by their BTH and NBL type ones. The bogies had a horizontal rib along the inside face of the sideframes, which needed to be cut away, although I didn't find this slowed down my locos as much as that.
Regards
Tony.

Tony.
I took the keeper plates off to access the wheels the other day. One set is out pending a new set of P4 ones. Annoyingly they are 15mm, which is different to other Heljan diesels. Dapol 10000/10001 are the same, but that makes sense (from the prototypes point of view) having the same size, though I have a copy of the LMS plan and only 12 were ordered for the Co-Co's. I tested the running upside down and it ran a lot freer than the other week on the test track at Risley. So yes, it seems friction, somewhere on the bearings/sideframes/keeper plate is to blame.

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi Micheal.
Curious about the wheel size. My book on the LMS locomotives gives the wheel sizes as 3'6" (which works out at 14mm) for both 10000/1 and 10800 and from photos 10800 appears to have disc wheels. I make this comment because most of the later NBL built diesels, including their type 1s, used spoked wheels.
Regards
Tony.

[David Knight]

The running of the loco is appalling. It hardly gets above 10 mph

Hi Micheal.
Somethings not right here. I have converted several Heljan locos and they all run well. There is most likely additional friction somewhere in the drive train.
First thing I would check is that the drive shafts between the motor and bogies are correctly engaged in their respective slots.
If converted to P4 it is likely that the wheels / axles rub on the inside of the bogie sideframes judging by their BTH and NBL type ones. The bogies had a horizontal rib along the inside face of the sideframes, which needed to be cut away, although I didn't find this slowed down my locos as much as that.
Regards
Tony.

Tony.
I took the keeper plates off to access the wheels the other day. One set is out pending a new set of P4 ones. Annoyingly they are 15mm, which is different to other Heljan diesels. Dapol 10000/10001 are the same, but that makes sense (from the prototypes point of view) having the same size, though I have a copy of the LMS plan and only 12 were ordered for the Co-Co's. I tested the running upside down and it ran a lot freer than the other week on the test track at Risley. So yes, it seems friction, somewhere on the bearings/sideframes/keeper plate is to blame.

This sounds suspiciously like first run of the Class 17 by Heljan. There was a lot of binding in the gear towers primarily in the worm and its bearings. That might be worth checking.

Cheers,

David

[Hardwicke]

Actually they sre 14mm. My mistake. 3'6"

[down_under]

Hello All,

What brand of wheels are people using for these conversions?

I have some solid “steam and things” P4 14mm wheels and/or Branchline solid discs. Interesting that 10800 are solid and the C.16 spoked.

Cheers,

James