Ultrascale wheelset for Bachmann Class 25

[Martin Kelly]

Now this may be a forlorn request...

I'm about to embark on a slow and steady project to fit a Bachmann Class 25 with Penbits sprung bogies. Ideally I'd like to equip it with a set of Ultrascale wheels but there's a seven months waiting time. As an interim measure, I'm planning to order a set from Alan Gibson but before I do that, I thought I'd try my luck here just in case somebody has a set of the Ultrascale wheels going spare - I don't mind if its one of the conversion sets or the eco-sets the require self-assembly because, either way< I'm going to have to dis-assemble them to fit the gear from the Bachmann locomotive.

[grovenor-2685]

I thought Ultrascale conversion sets came with gears already fitted.

[Horsetan]

I thought Ultrascale conversion sets came with gears already fitted.

They do.

[ClikC]

Why not a set of Sutton Locomotive Works wheels?

Exact prototype wheels, unlike Gibsons [s]or Ultrascales[/s], and in stock ready for dispatch.

Link: https://railexclusive.com/product/class ... installed/

Granted they are not ‘drop-ins’, [s]and will require new longer axles to work with Penbits springing[/s], but that’s exactly like the Ultrascales.

Regards

[Martin Kelly]

Why not a set of Sutton Locomotive Works wheels?

Exact prototype wheels, unlike Gibsons or Ultrascales, and in stock ready for dispatch.

Link: https://railexclusive.com/product/class ... installed/

Granted they are not ‘drop-ins’, and will require new longer axles to work with Penbits springing, but that’s exactly like the Ultrascales.

Regards

Thanks! I don't know why I didn't think of that option. One question: why would they need longer axles? Wouldn't they have the same back-to-back and other dimensions as the Gibson or Ultrascale ones? Sorry if I'm being a bit dense about something.

[Martin Kelly]

I thought Ultrascale conversion sets came with gears already fitted.

Sorry, I meant the bearings that clip into the Bachmann drivetrain not the gear. It will be my first time attempting one of these conversions.

[ClikC]

Thanks! I don't know why I didn't think of that option. One question: why would they need longer axles? Wouldn't they have the same back-to-back and other dimensions as the Gibson or Ultrascale ones? Sorry if I'm being a bit dense about something.

Sorry my mistake, I thought the bearings sat outside the wheels. But this is not the case.

[iak]

Allow me check the workroom sir.
I may well have a set of Ultrascale’s.

[Martin Kelly]

Allow me check the workroom sir.
I may well have a set of Ultrascale’s.

Great. Thank you. Fingers crossed!

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi Martin.
I have a spare set if Ian hasn't.
Regards
Tony.

[Martin Kelly]

Hi Martin.
I have a spare set if Ian hasn't.
Regards
Tony.

Thanks Tony. I'll give Ian a day or two to check. If he can't find them, I'll take up your kind offer.

[Hardwicke]

Just be aware that Sulzers had the "perforated"wheel with lots of holes around the rim. No idea how many as I never saw one out of the bogie.

[ChrisMitchell]

Ultrascale do individual sets of disc wheels for the Class 24/25 with the perforated holes, but these are not in the conversion sets. Otherwise its SLW wheels.

Regards, Chris

[Tony Wilkins]

Just be aware that Sulzers had the "perforated"wheel with lots of holes around the rim. No idea how many as I never saw one out of the bogie.

Hi Michael.
Correct. They had 12 x 3" holes, I measured a set at a Derby works open day and took a picture. A copy of it was given to Brian Rodgers of Ultrascale when he was doing the patterns for these wheels.

25 wheels 001.jpg

25 wheels 002.jpg

Regards
Tony.

[Tony Wilkins]

Ultrascale do individual sets of disc wheels for the Class 24/25 with the perforated holes, but these are not in the conversion sets. Otherwise its SLW wheels.

Regards, Chris

The Ultrascale conversion sets that I have, have got the holes.

Ultrascale 25 conversion set.jpg

I have had numerous sets over the years and they have all been like this.
Regards
Tony.

[Proton]

I have done four Penbits conversions and it's fairly clear in the instructions that Ultrascale drop in conversion wheels are not compatible with the Penbits frames and hornblocks.

Even the standard U/S diesel wheels can be problematic because of the rather large axle boss.

Once trimmed, however, the U/S wheels are fine.

John

[ChrisMitchell]

The Ultrascale conversion sets that I have, have got the holes.
Ultrascale 25 conversion set.jpg
I have had numerous sets over the years and they have all been like this.
Regards
Tony.

My mistake

[Crepello]

Ultrascale do individual sets of disc wheels for the Class 24/25 with the perforated holes, but these are not in the conversion sets. Otherwise its SLW wheels.

That's odd! Brian Rogers phoned me up to give me a ticking off when I suggested on a forum that folks drill their
own holes in his plain conversion sets. He thought I was setting him up for queues of customers wanting damage
replacements. So I got out my Derby drawing and quoted Dia, PCD and number to him. A couple of weeks later I
went up to Letchworth and he test-fitted them, duly re-tooled with holes, while I waited.

Someone here thought it wasn't worthwhile, as you couldn't see the holes, but that's Bachmann's fault - I recall
noticing them from moderate distance on a real 25 struggling with wheelslip trying to cross the passenger lines
at Loughborough in the early 70's.

[Tony Wilkins]

Someone here thought it wasn't worthwhile, as you couldn't see the holes, but that's Bachmann's fault - I recall
noticing them from moderate distance on a real 25 struggling with wheelslip trying to cross the passenger lines
at Loughborough in the early 70's.

A lot depends on your viewing angle. If you are lower down such as when the track is on an embankment, the holes are clearly visible. From higher up, then less so.
Why the 24 / 25s had that many holes is another question as it was a feature unique to them.
Regards
Tony.

[Martin Kelly]

Why the 24 / 25s had that many holes is another question as it was a feature unique to them.

On page 15 of Diesels in Depth: Classes 24/25, David Clark wrote "As part of the programme to keep the locomotive's weight down, the wheels had 16 lightening holes drilled into the, close to the inner tyre edge". I don't know if that's the true reason. Plus, Tony Wilkins' photos in this thread show 12 holes, not 16.

[Tony Wilkins]

Why the 24 / 25s had that many holes is another question as it was a feature unique to them.

On page 15 of Diesels in Depth: Classes 24/25, David Clark wrote "As part of the programme to keep the locomotive's weight down, the wheels had 16 lightening holes drilled into the, close to the inner tyre edge". I don't know if that's the true reason. Plus, Tony Wilkins' photos in this thread show 12 holes, not 16.

It is certainly true that the early class 24s were seriously over their design weight of 75 Tons at 79.8 Tons, which restricted their operating area and additional measures were taken to reduce the designs weight.
Regards
Tony.

[Crepello]

Someone here thought it wasn't worthwhile, as you couldn't see the holes, but that's Bachmann's fault - I recall
noticing them from moderate distance on a real 25 struggling with wheelslip trying to cross the passenger lines
at Loughborough in the early 70's.

A lot depends on your viewing angle. If you are lower down such as when the track is on an embankment, the holes are clearly visible. From higher up, then less so.

I was in the signal box, during a railway society visit.

[Martin Kelly]

My thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Through the kindness of Tony Wilkins, I'm now the proud possessor of an Ultrascale conversion set of wheels for the Bachmann Class 25 and I'm itching to get started on my project!

I think conventional practice is to remove threads like these when the "want" has been fulfilled but there is interesting information and photos of wheels from the prototype in the thread, so would anybody object if we kept it here?

[Albert Hall]

In that case can I suggest it be moved to the Trains: Model & Prototype section!!!
Roy

[grovenor-2685]

Duly moved as Sales and Wants are automatically deleted if not deleted manually before the time expires.